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Thread: Can Sotnikova overcome the pressure?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by l'etoile View Post
    Btw, is everyone on board that Adelina does not flutz anymore? Because from what I've seen, while judges at SA didn't think so, she has still got that flutz. Am I alone on this?
    She definitely still has a flutz, though it's less obvious than in the past. It was clear to me, however, from the second row of that arena. Not sure why the judges didn't call it when they called Ashley and Christina's. That probably the one area where she should have lost some points.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by l'etoile View Post
    Btw, is everyone on board that Adelina does not flutz anymore? Because from what I've seen, while judges at SA didn't think so, she has still got that flutz. Am I alone on this?
    Reading the board- I think it is at best a mixed review.
    I eliminate myself from an opinion simply because I can't tell watching on the internet.

    I do know this....Ashley, who gets frequent edge calls did not get one at SA.
    Perhaps Adelina got a free ride as part of Ashley's "coronation."

    That makes alot of sense if we actually apply logic to the "sporting/pageant" concept we see in figure skating.

    ETA: Did Ashley get an edge call at SA??

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Reading the board- I think it is at best a mixed review.
    I eliminate myself from an opinion simply because I can't tell watching on the internet.

    I do know this....Ashley, who gets frequent edge calls did not get one at SA.
    Perhaps Adelina got a free ride as part of Ashley's "coronation."

    That makes alot of sense if we actually apply logic to the "sporting/pageant" concept we see in figure skating.

    ETA: Did Ashley get an edge call at SA??

    Actually Ashley DID get an edge call, so why did you say she didn't?

  4. #94
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    Adelina definitely still flutzes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Actually Ashley DID get an edge call, so why did you say she didn't?
    I added that I wasn't sure.
    Why do you misrepresent my words?

    BOP seems sure Adelina flutzed and I can accept that.....
    Last edited by janetfan; 10-23-2012 at 10:31 PM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    She definitely still has a flutz, though it's less obvious than in the past. It was clear to me, however, from the second row of that arena. Not sure why the judges didn't call it when they called Ashley and Christina's. That probably the one area where she should have lost some points.
    I agree, especially considering that Christina's edge was a lot better than adelina's, I actually expected her not to receive the "e"...

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I am pretty sure Michelle Kwan on her own has won as many sr Intl medals as all the ladies in the entire Russian federation.
    Michelle Kwan was 9 times at Worlds Podium. Irina Slutskaya was 6 times - less, but comparable number.

    USA newer had all 3 medals of Four Continents. Russia had 3 medals of Euro 4 times - from 1999 to 2002.

    USA has 14 gold medals of World Junior Championship from 1976 to now.
    USSR and Russia - 10. Less, but comparable.
    Last edited by AlexRus; 10-23-2012 at 02:03 PM.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    After seeing her live this weekend, I can see why Adelina scores well. She has great speed, good ice coverage and she skates big. I actually like her FS. I think it's a good challenge for her to try something non-balletic and she seemed to have fun out there, which is a good thing.

    She is going through a major growth spurt, and my husband noted that she didn't seem quite confident in her body. So the fact she's still winning medals while she's going through this major growing out period is impressive.
    I don't see the huge growth spurt part. People keep saying Adelina's gotten so tall now and grown several inches, but look at the podium pictures, she's not a tall girl by any means, Christina Gao is only 5'5" and towers above her, Ashley is 5'3" and appears to be around the same height, maybe a little taller still than Adelina. So if she really is around 5'3" or a little under, she's not tall for a skater, an ideal size really, and has been the same height for around a year or more now. And she has mentioned on her formspring about how she follows a very strict diet and tries to restrain herself from eating junk foods, she is thin, not curvy or womanly in her shape, her body type is not the issue. And the issue is not that she can't do the jumps anymore, her jumps are still huge, she can rotate them when she lands them cleanly, she is simply not consistently landing her jumps right now for whatever reason and she can't expect to win big competitions when she makes so many mistakes. If she skates clean, yes, she is a contender for European and maybe World medals, probably not World or Olympic gold though, and for the past year or she hasn't been able to skate close to clean in most of her competitions.
    Last edited by silverlake22; 10-23-2012 at 02:13 PM.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    I don't see the huge growth spurt part. People keep saying Adelina's gotten so tall now and grown several inches, but look at the podium pictures, she's not a tall girl by any means, Christina Gao is only 5'5" and towers above her, Ashley is 5'3" and appears to be around the same height, maybe a little taller still than Adelina. So if she really is around 5'3" or a little under, she's not tall for a skater, an ideal size really, and has been the same height for around a year or more now. And the issue is not that she can't do the jumps anymore, her jumps are still huge, she can rotate them when she lands them cleanly, she is simply not consistently landing her jumps right now for whatever reason and she can't expect to win big competitions when she makes so many mistakes. If she skates clean, yes, she is a contender for European and maybe World medals, probably not World or Olympic gold though, and for the past year or she hasn't been able to skate close to clean in most of her competitions.
    For me, growth spurt means more than just height. She's definitely filling out as well -- she looks a lot different than she did when she won the 2011 World Junior title.

    And such growth/puberty doesn't have to create complete havoc.I think Adelina has done well on physically handling growth, i.e. landing jumps. But there could be a mental component. When you're not used to your body or feel confident about it, your brain may have you do a lot of things that you don't plan.

    A little story. When I was outside the hotel bar on Sunday night, I got a chance to get Adelina's autograph, she was quite friendly. But after all the fans got photos and autographs, she walked quickly away with her hoodie over her head. I don't think it's because she didn't want to deal with her fans, but more that she was your typical teenager who didn't want to be seen publicly. Sometimes we forget that these skaters are still teenagers and still dealing with their own issues with their bodies and what not.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    For me, growth spurt means more than just height. She's definitely filling out as well -- she looks a lot different than she did when she won the 2011 World Junior title.

    And such growth/puberty doesn't have to create complete havoc.I think Adelina has done well on physically handling growth, i.e. landing jumps. But there could be a mental component. When you're not used to your body or feel confident about it, your brain may have you do a lot of things that you don't plan.

    A little story. When I was outside the hotel bar on Sunday night, I got a chance to get Adelina's autograph, she was quite friendly. But after all the fans got photos and autographs, she walked quickly away with her hoodie over her head. I don't think it's because she didn't want to deal with her fans, but more that she was your typical teenager who didn't want to be seen publicly. Sometimes we forget that these skaters are still teenagers and still dealing with their own issues with their bodies and what not.
    Thanks for sharing that Mrs. P. - and thanks for your SA reports

    I can't ever recall a skater who grew the way Mirai did - unless it might be Caroline.

    But Adelina has definitely grown and filled out, and no way is her size comparable to how it was only two years ago.

    Let's not forget Michelle grew from 5'0 to 5'2 (while also filling out) and Frank said it caused real problems.

    Mirai grew 4-5 inches in little more than a year. Then she filled out.
    Adelina was smaller than Sasha a year or so ago and now she is closer to Mirai's size.

    To hear that some think it doesn't matter or effect such young skaters is hard to believe.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    For me, growth spurt means more than just height. She's definitely filling out as well -- she looks a lot different than she did when she won the 2011 World Junior title.

    And such growth/puberty doesn't have to create complete havoc.I think Adelina has done well on physically handling growth, i.e. landing jumps. But there could be a mental component. When you're not used to your body or feel confident about it, your brain may have you do a lot of things that you don't plan.

    A little story. When I was outside the hotel bar on Sunday night, I got a chance to get Adelina's autograph, she was quite friendly. But after all the fans got photos and autographs, she walked quickly away with her hoodie over her head. I don't think it's because she didn't want to deal with her fans, but more that she was your typical teenager who didn't want to be seen publicly. Sometimes we forget that these skaters are still teenagers and still dealing with their own issues with their bodies and what not.
    Her twitter and instagram photos of herself posing in full makeup with her stomach bare would suggest she is comfortable with her body, recognizes she has an attractive figure, and is not afraid to show that off publicly. I don't doubt what you say about her behavior is true, but, look at her twitter and instagram pictures and you will see what I mean. Adelina does not come off as self conscious or trying to hide her changing figure.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Her twitter and instagram photos of herself posing in full makeup with her stomach bare would suggest she is comfortable with her body, recognizes she has an attractive figure, and is not afraid to show that off publicly. I don't doubt what you say about her behavior is true, but, look at her twitter and instagram pictures and you will see what I mean. Adelina does not come off as self conscious or trying to hide her changing figure.
    I've seen those photos too. But what one displays on Twitter/instagram/social media doesn't always tell the whole story. Generally, you're going to post photos where you look good or you are happy. That's pretty par for the course for anyone. But I'm sure there are times, as many people do, you don't feel that great or confident. That's the body language I got from her when I saw her the other night. That said, she was a class act, smiling and willing to take photos with fans.

    But comfort in one's body isn't just about looking pretty either. It's also feeling confident when you move or function. Adelina's strength is that she probably has muscle memory and a number of other things that helps her get through the jumps and maintain a host of qualities, but those lapses (i.e. the popped filp in the LP, the 2A error, etc) to me reflect the fact that her brain still figuring how her new body works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I agree on that but Miki from the 2007 Worlds would have still beaten it by the vast difference in jump difficulty alone, and everyone on this forum knows I am far from a Miki fan, and I like Shizuka and her skating about twice as much as I do Miki, just speaking the truth.
    Miki from the 2007 Worlds got 127 for a 7 triples program. No downgrades. How would she beat Shizuka by the vast difference? Back to back, she wouldn't even come close to that. She was not at the same level.
    If she did what she did in 2007, both clean SP and LP with 3x3s, she would beat a cautious Shiz by at most 4 points. Had Shiz not doubled the 3loop, Miki had no chance.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Miki from the 2007 Worlds got 127 for a 7 triples program. No downgrades. How would she beat Shizuka by the vast difference? Back to back, she wouldn't even come close to that. She was not at the same level.
    If she did what she did in 2007, both clean SP and LP with 3x3s, she would beat a cautious Shiz by at most 4 points. Had Shiz not doubled the 3loop, Miki had no chance.
    Of course if Shizuka had done more jumps she would have beaten Miki. She is a better skater in every area apart from jumps than Miki. However the fact is Miki did a ton more jumps. A triple lutz-triple loop in the short vs a triple lutz-double toe then 7 triples including a triple lutz-triple loop in the long vs only 5 triples in the long. OK a vast difference might be overstating it, but had both skated exactly the same way it probably would have panned out exactly like the scores indicate, Miki by 4 points. It is not even relevant to any big picture topic though, and I am in no way implying Shizuka was lucky to win the 06 Olympics (well atleast nothing regarding Miki), and as it was Miki wasnt even a contender at the 06 Games or capable of skating at her 2007 level yet, so not worth debating further about really.
    Last edited by pangtongfan; 10-23-2012 at 10:28 PM.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    It's an interesting point - possibly right.
    But since it is 2006 Torino being discussed - we know how Miki did. That is what matters regarding Torino.

    Anybody (even me ) can pick a performance from one year and say it would beat a performance from another year.

    Before you get hysterical at being challenged - let's remember that what happened before Torino or after Torino simpy doesn't count .

    Not then, not now....not ever.

    Miki had her chance in Torino and also Vancouver. She might even have a chance in Sochi. But how one skater did in 2008 vs how another skater did in 2005 is basically irrelevant and goes against the whole sporting nature these competitons are supposed to represent.

    Just my two cents....
    Well yes I never meant to imply I think Miki should be the 2006 Olympic Champion had she skated her best there, LOL! I dont even think she was a contender at the 06 Games, and it was having much improved her spins and artistry in 2007, jumping better than ever, and having the competition of her life at Worlds in 07 that she was able to win (much more impressive than her 2011 win which was more entirely based on the really low level of skating that season). My only point was that Asada and Kim losing to her there doesnt mean one couldnt have won the 2006 Olympics had they been there. I dont think they would have been a lock, but would have been contenders, Asada moreso than Kim IMO.

    Personally I hate the stupid age rules all around. I wish we had gotten to see all the best Russians at the past 2 Worlds. They would have added a great deal to rather lackluster events. I guess the ISU was mortified when Baiul and Lipinski won their gold medals and left so quickly though, but with the pro side of the sport dead the ISU doesnt have to worry about that nearly as much as they would have when they put the new age rules in place.

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