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Thread: What is your opinion on Plush's new program?

  1. #1
    Custom Title cinnamon's Avatar
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    What is your opinion on Plush's new program?

    He surprised me this time. I knew he was trying to do something new, approaching a Japanese choreographer, etc.
    First when the program started, his swan imaged costume with Rondo Capriccioso confused me a little, then it came to Swan. Of course the costume can't stop you to compare him to Johnny or Ge, a more slim line skaters, but.
    After all the best part for me of this program is this king of skate's shy smile in the end, that is telling, "Hey, I've tried something new". I'm not a big fan of him, but as time passes I respect him more and more.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou6NmhHdf_M&feature=plcp
    Last edited by cinnamon; 10-03-2012 at 04:15 AM.

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    I was surprised in a good way. Swan was interesting and fun to watch. It really suits him. Of course it needs additional works. It was like a skeleton yet. I'll be happy if I can watch complete its final version in London.
    About skating, I thought that he has improved a lot since 2010. Or rather, he just back on his former form.
    The music arrangement was odd. I mean, moving from Swan to Danse Macabre. I hope he will fix.

    Of course the costume can't stop you to compare him to Johnny or Ge, a more slim line skaters,
    Me too, compared to them Though I don't think Johnny is a slim line skater. Actually he has a muscular build

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    This is the best program Plushenko has ever skated in terms of its construction and details. I've waited a long, long time to see him skate a program this good.

    The costume doesn't fit him . I looks too big on him, like he's lost weight since he was measured for it. It's not in any way flattering to him.

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    Come on! It can hardly be called a program yet since it's clearly undercooked. I am not even sure if he is going to show it anywhere at competitions. Seems like they are fishing. For me the whole skating looked like a joke and satire than the actual serious test. The Swan part is definitely the best grotesque, some kind of homophobic parody on Matthew Bourne's Swan Lake.

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    I can see that he's really skated on deeper edges and more transitions and challenged himself to do so. At he's age, my hat's off for him!

    I don't like his costume and the idea of choosing this music. The idea of swan - black swan or white swan - with thick waist of his and Johnny Weir's (and all men's for that matter) does not flatter on them. It's not my cup of tea.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 10-03-2012 at 08:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cinnamon View Post
    He surprised me this time. I knew he was trying to do something new, approaching a Japanese choreographer, etc.
    First when the program started, his swan imaged costume with Rondo Capriccioso confused me a little, then it came to Swan. Of course the costume can't stop you to compare him to Johnny or Ge, a more slim line skaters, but.
    After all the best part for me of this program is this king of skate's shy smile in the end, that is telling, "Hey, I've tried something new". I'm not a big fan of him, but as time passes I respect him more and more.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou6NmhHdf_M&feature=plcp
    Thanks for sharing this clip. First of all, I am very impressed by Plushenko's dedication to continue to skate and compete after accomplishing so much in the sport of Figure Skating. I am delighted to see him planning to compete again in major international competitions this season and hope that it will inspire the younger generation of male Russian skaters to rebuild and achieve new heights. I also want to congratulate Plushenko for exploring a style that is a little bit outside of his comfort zone - he is a rock star and acts like one on the ice, therefore, the smooth, classical and at times, understated style of his current chosen music is definitely a departure for him. It says to me he isn't the one to shy away from changes and is a true fighter. We saw that he briefly returned to his "Rock Star" self at the end in his straight line step sequence, though overall, a vailliant effort, including the attempt at Quad Salchow, to be different and that is very respectable.

    As usual, I will give my comments from a more technical perspective at the beginning of the season since all new programs have areas each skater can improve and work on.

    - Solid jumps overall, tripled the Quad Toe but it is expected he will get that element back pretty shortly. Would be interesting to see if he will stick with his planned Quad Salchow later in the season given that it is << and landed on two feet here. Not sure if he again made a mental error or not but he didn't do the 2nd Triple Axel in combination, shades of the ghost from Vancouver Olympics to me where a 2T could have won him gold. Mishin needs to make sure Plushenko doesn't make such error again no matter how serious or relax the competition may be so that he will remember to do it too even under pressure. Put it this way, if Plushenko doesn't develop the right mental habit at lesser competition, how can you expect him to deliver at Worlds or when pressure is on?

    - Spins, not much to say, they don't particularly stand out. He's got amazing flexibility but the Biellmann position is missing. Recommend that he uses his known flexibility to his advantage and explore more creative / memorable positions in his spins because at 30, he may be unable to compete with the younger men on spin execution but he sure can stand out with his flexibility.

    - Step Sequences, it's early in the season though Plushenko needs to improve the flow of his SS execution. For instance, the final straight line SS didn't go from end to end across the rink, covered approx. 3/4 of the ice surface only. Althought not standing still, his flow is considerably reduced when he starts to execute turns in his SS. With that, it will be hard for him to score high GOE

    - The most concerning part of this program remains the components, in particular, the lack of proper and sufficient amount of Transitions in between elements. Plushenko continues to pay insufficient attention with his in-between elements skating, which makes his overall composition quite a bit simpler to execute but also doing less compared to other top male skaters. I am sure his expression and interpretation will improve once he gets used to this new program but at the risk of sounding like a broken record, he needs to up the ante on his Transitions and overall composition of his program, if not, he will have a hard time competing against the very best in the world right now
    Last edited by wallylutz; 10-03-2012 at 10:36 AM. Reason: typos

  7. #7
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    http://pic.twitter.com/mQprRoVo
    (Today on training)
    http://pic.twitter.com/6iFw66hV
    (Exactly 70 kg, and 178 cm!!) OMG! Isn't he slim line skater?

    But I agree with you, I don't like the costume, very unusual of him.


    I'm always surprised, when some N-Am mocked his skating. He can do everything, if he wants. Maybe you miss this interview with Camerlengo
    -Was Plushenko receptive to your ideas?

    Camerlengo: He was amazing. Right from the beginning, he and I listened to the music [and discussed] what he would like to go for -- my ideas, his ideas. We never had a conflict. So far, it's been very, very good.

    Evgeni is really capable. He surprised me with his ability and skills as a skater. I'd ask, 'Why haven't you done that before?' He did so many things, but in a competitive program you have to consider all the time the elements, the jumps, the timing, the stamina, many things. So you cannot really skate a program using all of your skills, [including] all the steps you can do and all of the other things you can do on the ice. Because you have to think, 'If I overload the program, I'm not able to do the elements.' And in the end, the elements give you the results.

    - Plushenko has been criticized for a lack of transitions between elements.

    Camerlengo: That's what we worked on. We worked on having full transitions; we wanted to do that. I said, 'I want to see you doing something that is not crossovers.' And we went for that, and he was really, really positive. He feels so motivated; he wants to show everybody, 'I can do this, I can do that.' Why he didn't do more of that before, I cannot say, but his [winning] history makes him right. It seemed to have hurt him a bit at the 2010 Vancouver Olympics, though.
    Icenetwork.com: If Plushenko does compete at the world championships again, he'll have to compete against Patrick Chan, Daisuke Takahashi.

    Camerlengo: He can do it. Of course, he is 30 years old and he's going to be the oldest one of the whole group, but he has good technique and such skills when he skates. I think he can make it. I think he can go and show up there with the program and compete, for sure. He won [2012] Europeans with a big score.

    He has everything he needs to compete at the same level with all the others and even more, because he has such amazing experience, and he has a charisma that is so amazing on the ice. Already, when he is just standing on the ice, the people watch him so [intently].

    So I don't understand, why are you surprised?
    Last edited by plushyfan; 10-03-2012 at 12:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cinnamon View Post
    He surprised me this time. I knew he was trying to do something new, approaching a Japanese choreographer, etc.
    First when the program started, his swan imaged costume with Rondo Capriccioso confused me a little, then it came to Swan. Of course the costume can't stop you to compare him to Johnny or Ge, a more slim line skaters, but.
    After all the best part for me of this program is this king of skate's shy smile in the end, that is telling, "Hey, I've tried something new". I'm not a big fan of him, but as time passes I respect him more and more.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou6NmhHdf_M&feature=plcp

    This isn't his competitive program. This is his test program. Please go to the 2012-2013 programs thread. I believe it is around page 34, where there is a link that'll lead you to the interview, where Plushenko discusses this test program.

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    Seems he is doing an 'all you can eat' buffet program classic No.2s, something for everybody but probably pleases none. Weird I can see bits of Hanyu and Johnny Weir in there somewhere more than Plushy, to the point it feel there's an identity crisis in there somewhere? Sort of a classical version of Shabby Chic, the glitz, the glam, the aesthetic showmanship without any honesty, authenticity and actually cheapens the antiquity of the art.

    Oh Plushy, i want to like this so bad, but I just can't.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 10-03-2012 at 01:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post

    As usual, I will give my comments from a more technical perspective at the beginning of the season since all new programs have areas each skater can improve and work on.
    It is so obvious that he is not putting all his effort in doing this program so it is too early to discuss about his technical performance. E.G. He did not do any combination jumps and even missed a spin.

    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Seems he is doing an 'all you can eat' buffet program classic No.2s, something for everybody but probably pleases none. Weird I can see bits of Hanyu and Johnny Weir in there somewhere more than Plushy, to the point it feel there's an identity crisis in there somewhere? Sort of a classical version of Shabby Chic, the glitz, the glam, the aesthetic showmanship without any honesty, authenticity and actually cheapens the antiquity of the art.

    No this is not choreographed by the Japanese choreographer, but a joint efforts from David, Sergei (the choreographer for Moonlight), Mishin and Plushenko himself. And this is not the complete work since the layout is definitely not for the IJS.

    You will watch the more complete work on Japan Open, he said he will compete there with this program.

    As for the costume, I do not like the white part being so evenly spread out, if the black can close a bit at the waist it would be a fine costume.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    This isn't his competitive program. This is his test program. Please go to the 2012-2013 programs thread. I believe it is around page 34, where there is a link that'll lead you to the interview, where Plushenko discusses this test program.
    The best is yet to come!

  12. #12
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    Thank you. I didn't think this program was done by a Japanese choreographer. What I meant was in some article in spring, it was said that Plush was going to ask Japan's Kenji Miyamoto to make his program. Miyamoto is the one who choreographs Mao and Mai's show programs for The Ice, as well as Shizuka's. I was wondering why Plush picked him. He might be a good choreographer, but he is not one of the big names, at least outside of Japan. Since then I was thinking Plush was really looking into make some changes. Also I didn't write this was his competition program. In some site it is stated:
    2013 Season Notes
    SP Music: TBD
    FS Music: Music from the Romeo and Juliet soundtrack by Nino Rota.

    Well, the important thing was as Mr. Camerlengo said, Plush was capable and positive to try new style.

    (Oh, didn't mean to say he was heavy or something, just compare to the young ones like Hanyu, the impression is different. Like Akiko is not fat at all, but her round face gives an impression that she is not skinny...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    No this is not choreographed by the Japanese choreographer, but a joint efforts from David, Sergei (the choreographer for Moonlight), Mishin and Plushenko himself. And this is not the complete work since the layout is definitely not for the IJS.
    Thanks for the info. So i was right on the ball when i called this a pastiche program before Doris edited the other stuff, ie. inauthentic cover version of greatest hits gathered from the dustbin. I really doubt it was a true joint effort. Imho, no real artist/designer/choreographer would really welcome their work being butchered up and collage into something else without the intention and purpose they were designed for. It is very likely Plushy might have extracted some elements he enjoyed from his programs and put them together as an improv or experimentation. However, good art can't lie, or rather the responsible ardent critic wouldn't allow it. Truth should always come out in the end. As an improv exhibition, it is a nice addition to experimentation and play. As a skating program, it doesn't quiet gel, because for once Plushy was not truthful to himself. He is saying 'Look i can do this too', instead of expressing with conviction 'This what I believe and MY style of skating'.

    Can't wait to see him competing again.

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    It's clearly a work in progress. I've been spoiled by the PCS kings, but that was so sparse and lacking in detail or nuance that it was just dull.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cinnamon View Post
    Thank you. I didn't think this program was done by a Japanese choreographer. What I meant was in some article in spring, it was said that Plush was going to ask Japan's Kenji Miyamoto to make his program. Miyamoto is the one who choreographs Mao and Mai's show programs for The Ice, as well as Shizuka's. I was wondering why Plush picked him. He might be a good choreographer, but he is not one of the big names, at least outside of Japan. Since then I was thinking Plush was really looking into make some changes. Also I didn't write this was his competition program. In some site it is stated:
    2013 Season Notes
    SP Music: TBD
    FS Music: Music from the Romeo and Juliet soundtrack by Nino Rota.

    Well, the important thing was as Mr. Camerlengo said, Plush was capable and positive to try new style.

    (Oh, didn't mean to say he was heavy or something, just compare to the young ones like Hanyu, the impression is different. Like Akiko is not fat at all, but her round face gives an impression that she is not skinny...)
    Big names are not a guarantee for a good program, and these names grew from "small" names. I do not think Plushenko and his team will choose a choreographer based purely on reputation. Not for him at least. They would choose those with the styles which interested him. And you are right about the program choreographed by Miyamoto. It was Romeo and Juliet. But from interviews given after the test skating, Plushenko and Mishin both said that they felt that program is good but not good enough for competition. But since Plushenko has the habit of stack programs, there is no way one could know what would be the real competition number he would use in the competition.
    The same is also applied to the SP, which in summer he demonstrated during the tour in Italy. The music is "the prophet" by Gary Moore. But again that was a rough program too (choreographed by Camerlengo).

    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Thanks for the info. So i was right on the ball when i called this a pastiche program before Doris edited the other stuff, ie. inauthentic cover version of greatest hits gathered from the dustbin. I really doubt it was a true joint effort. Imho, no real artist/designer/choreographer would really welcome their work being butchered up and collage into something else without the intention and purpose they were designed for. It is very likely Plushy might have extracted some elements he enjoyed from his programs and put them together as an improv or experimentation. However, good art can't lie, or rather the responsible ardent critic wouldn't allow it. Truth should always come out in the end. As an improv exhibition, it is a nice addition to experimentation and play. As a skating program, it doesn't quiet gel, because for once Plushy was not truthful to himself. He is saying 'Look i can do this too', instead of expressing with conviction 'This what I believe and MY style of skating'.

    Can't wait to see him competing again.
    As a real layman, I like this program. In my eye, this is an elegant program in a classic ballet style, which Plushenko is good at: maybe not to many from this forum, but to me at least. Some of the movements remind me of his Nijinsky program. Which actually is a surprise because IMO Nijinsky was so good (again maybe some of you find that one is not good at all) which could be the reason he did not come back to the classic ballet style afterwards. Why repeat the same style when you have already push it to the best level?

    Of course, I have to be honest that I was also surprised a little bit since he just put all the jumps one by one all together since he knows front-load program is not good. But again, this was just test skating where you can either show your new program or show your shape. I believe he combines the two: show that he can nail the elements and the skeleton of the new program.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    It's clearly a work in progress. I've been spoiled by the PCS kings, but that was so sparse and lacking in detail or nuance that it was just dull.
    Then do not watch his skating since probably his program will never be with the same style as the "new kings". Simple enough.
    Last edited by yaya124; 10-04-2012 at 01:46 AM.

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