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Thread: Davis & White disclose their music selections!

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Do athletes in other sports take acting lessons?

    What is it about figure skating that makes some of us want these athletes to take acting lessons?

    Michael Jordan never took acting lessons. Usain Bolt to my knowledge has not taken acting lessons nor has Gabby Douglas.

    Certain athletes have a degree of charisma that is not taught to them in acting school. It is real and that is why fans like it.

    When I want to see fine acting I can watch Robert Dinero or Meryl Streep.

    Maybe it's me but I don' t equate Charlie White with Al Pacino. One is an athlete and the other is an actor.

    Do we need skaters taking acting lessons under the new scoring system? I thought it was all about sport now
    In this case, I think you're comparing apples and chalk: sporting events like track or basketball do not involve *interpretation* as a key component and figure skating does. If it didn't, why bother skating to music at all? Just go out there and skate a circular or straight-line step sequence or curve lift and may the best technician win.

    I'm not suggesting that Charlie needs to immerse himself in Stanislavsky, but I think it would help. One thing you can say for Moir--he has an innate acting ability in performance. I've seen flashes of it with some of Charlie's performances and an acting class can help bring that out (I say this as someone who took an acting class in college because I thought it would be a piece of cake--silly silly me! It was one of the hardest--and most rewarding--classes I took, even if I never had any acting aspirations).

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I love both of these teams - but why do I sense a majority of posters at GS might give D/W an slight edge in skating skills and V/M a bigger edge in presentation?

    Head to head V/M have the edge over D/W.

    I have no idea who is better - but think V/M have won more and not because they are better or faster skaters.

    Sport or pageant- which is really more important in Ice Dancing?

    Maybe Charlie does need acting lessons

    Ah yes, two other points.

    1. Plushenko could definitely use an acting lesson or two. Plus someone to tape his arms to his side. There are times I have thought he was going to take off with all that flapping.

    2. This will probably get me into more trouble, but I think both V/M and D/W are equally good, but V/M will always win out in a close competition (provided that both skate equally cleanly), because figure skating privileges the balletic style over any other, the same way that drama will almost always win over comedy at the Oscars. There are historical reasons for that, but perhaps that is getting too far afield...

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    In this case, I think you're comparing apples and chalk: sporting events like track or basketball do not involve *interpretation* as a key component and figure skating does. If it didn't, why bother skating to music at all? Just go out there and skate a circular or straight-line step sequence or curve lift and may the best technician win.

    I'm not suggesting that Charlie needs to immerse himself in Stanislavsky, but I think it would help. One thing you can say for Moir--he has an innate acting ability in performance. I've seen flashes of it with some of Charlie's performances and an acting class can help bring that out (I say this as someone who took an acting class in college because I thought it would be a piece of cake--silly silly me! It was one of the hardest--and most rewarding--classes I took, even if I never had any acting aspirations).
    Thanks for that good reply.

    I basically agree with you and skating will never be like most "real sports" until it gets rid of the music and costumes.

    ETA: I agree with your second post too - but are you so sure figure skating always favors a balletic style? And should it?

    What did we see at the Japan Open? Was Mao's balletic style favored over Ashley's more athletic style?
    Last edited by janetfan; 10-10-2012 at 11:12 AM.

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    I don't think it *always* favors the balletic style, but alas it usually does. Just listen to comments on performance and you'll hear things like "line" and "extension" and "toe point" come up again and again. Now why can't ice dancing include modern dance, for instance, where toe point is simply not relevant? What I AM saying is that, given two equally technically clean performances, the balletic style will score better than a more athletic style. I find this a bit disappointing myself, but then, like you, I like that ice dancing has been going in a more athletic direction (probably the best result of the North Americanization of ice dance). There is only so much Eurotraumadrama I can take!

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    This is what I don't get. Why is a balletic style considered less athletic? Just because a movement may not be "explosive" does not mean that's it is less athletic - it takes just as much strength to be able to hold and CONTROL a position. Ask any Cirque de Soleil performer - if a balletic style of expressiing a movement is any less athletic? Professional athletes - both female and male - including NFL linebackers have started to implement either yoga or stability exercises to their training regimens in order to become better overall athletes...and not just brusque force...

    And that's where versatility comes in...don't get me wrong ice dance is heading in the right direction but I don't want it to become a pairs discipline either....

    ETA: Olympia - I agree with you that both D/W and V/M are great teams and both need to be appreciated. I can only speak for myself but I cringe at the thought of both of these teams retiring after 2014...
    Last edited by heyhey; 10-10-2012 at 12:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    In this case, I think you're comparing apples and chalk: sporting events like track or basketball do not involve *interpretation* as a key component and figure skating does. If it didn't, why bother skating to music at all? Just go out there and skate a circular or straight-line step sequence or curve lift and may the best technician win.

    I'm not suggesting that Charlie needs to immerse himself in Stanislavsky, but I think it would help. One thing you can say for Moir--he has an innate acting ability in performance. I've seen flashes of it with some of Charlie's performances and an acting class can help bring that out (I say this as someone who took an acting class in college because I thought it would be a piece of cake--silly silly me! It was one of the hardest--and most rewarding--classes I took, even if I never had any acting aspirations).
    Agreed. Also, I don't think anyone was saying that Charlie as an ice dancer needs acting classes more than, say, a pairs skater or a singles skater. It was just suggested that Charlie would be more effective getting into a character if he had more understanding of a process.

    In this regard, skating splits off from other sports. The best skaters can do something that is often described in several ways: they can tell a story, they can bring viewers into the experience, they can convey a character, they can sell a song. All these are aspects of the same power that the best skaters have. I think Daisuke has it already, and Michelle did, and Yagudin. Yagudin is especially interesting in terms of this discussion because he didn't project emotion in an overly exaggerated way. In fact, he was able to convey both narrative and character very smoothly and naturalistically. This was the reason I always preferred him to Plushenko when both were active. Acting isn't just dramatizing, or Philippe Candeloro or Pasha Gritshchuk would be at the top of the list. Acting is being convincing. It's selling the audience the Brooklyn Bridge. In some skaters it seems to be innate, but surely other skaters can learn it.

    As for V/M vs. D/W, this is one more of those conundrums that I can never completely solve. Maybe I'm just greedy, but I want both of them at their best, all the time. (Sometimes I'm tempted to think that we should just always give them co-gold medals and leave it at that. Shhh! Don't tell.)

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    Actually I am far from an Ice Dancing expert - but think I raised more interesting questions than most of the answers I read so far.

    Simple question - is it a style preference with the judges that separates D/W and V/M - or is it actually an accurate and unbiased difference in their skating that determines who is better?

    I don't know the answers - but will never become a serious fan of Ice Dancing if everything hinges on Charlie taking some acting lessons.

    Again - is Ice Dancing a SPORT or a PAGEANT?

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Actually I am far from an Ice Dancing expert - but think I raised more interesting questions than most of the answers I read so far.

    Simple question - is it a style preference with the judges that separates D/W and V/M - or is it actually an accurate and unbiased difference in their skating that determines who is better?

    I don't know the answers - but will never become a serious fan of Ice Dancing if everything hinges on Charlie taking some acting lessons.

    Again - is Ice Dancing a SPORT or a PAGEANT?
    Well - janetfan - if we cannot convince you that ice dancing is a sport - perhaps you should e-mail Charlie White and tell him to compete in singles..

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    Quote Originally Posted by heyhey View Post
    Well - janetfan - if we cannot convince you that ice dancing is a sport - perhaps you should e-mail Charlie White and tell him to compete in singles..
    Despite his formidable skating skills - Charlie did not become a"dancer" because he could regularly land triple jumps.

    Ice Dancing, the most "pageant-like" of all the skating discilines will remain a "guilty pleasure" for me.

    I love watching it - but have no idea who should win.

    Not really meant as criticism - but as a confession.

    To be honest I hardly fathom how singles podiums are determined under the CoP.

    But I still watch and will always love figure skating.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyhey View Post
    Well - janetfan - if we cannot convince you that ice dancing is a sport - perhaps you should e-mail Charlie White and tell him to compete in singles..
    He can, and he has. http://youtu.be/n6f3ow-4au8

    He could do triples up to the lutz.

  11. #71
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    As a singles skater, Charlie White was the very first US guy to earn level 4 for a step sequence, when he competed as a junior.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    As a singles skater, Charlie White was the very first US guy to earn level 4 for a step sequence, when he competed as a junior.
    With all do respect - is there a point in your comment?

    I have no doubt Charlie is a wonderful skater - but the topic (for a while) was whether he needs acting lessons to be able to beat V/M?

    See - that's the part about Ice Dancing that is undoubtably more about pageantry than sport.

    But I love hearing from you Doris - and respect your knowledge about Ice dancing.

    ETA: Ballroom Dancing is not part of the Olympics and IMO Ice Dancing has the same problems.

  13. #73
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    BTW, I think there is a style issue between the two teams-at least that is the explanation I would use to explain why V&M won at Nice, and D&W won at World Team Trophy a couple weeks later. The rules themselves do not require you to point your toes, even in ladies. The women who got the highest scores ever, Yu Na Kim, categorically refused to point her toes for years, for example. Although there was great admiration for the balletic stylings of John Curry, people also love the more modern style of Robin Cousins.

    However, there are some skating cultures that prefer skating = ballet, but that just isn't so everywhere. If you get a panel that has a crop of balletomanes they may vote differently than a crop of DWTS or Fred Astaire fans.

    In fact, pairs is a more ballet derived event in my book.

    Ice Dance's roots are where the CD's are...in the ballroom, not the ballet theater, and what they care about is character of dance, correctness of steps, and timing.

    However, COP dance is another thing entirely, and what it values changes a lot every year.

    As to the performance quality of the two teams, one way to judge whether a team reaches the audience is how the audience responds, something that skate judging, either 6.0 or COP, has never paid any attention to.

    However, both D&W and V&M have fans that live in countries other than their own, and both teams have gained huge standing ovations in countries where they are not the natural home crowd favorites. Both teams are great performers, imo. If you can get the crowd cheering, that friends, is a PERFORMANCE. Both teams have it. I love them both, but I haven't loved all the programs they've chosen to do.

    I don't know whether Notre Dame de Paris will work well for D&W-I'll have to see it. And I won't rule out that it will develop over the year. Both teams fiddle with their performances if they don't seem to click either with the judges or the audience. Both want to win, but both also want to win over the crowd.

    I know D&W have taken mime classes though. Whether they took drama or acting, I don't know, and V&M have never said they took acting AFAIR. You should remember that facial expression isn't all that visible even in good seats in a skating rink. Mime is probably more useful here than facial expression training of some kind.

  14. #74
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    I don't have any comment to add right now, just jumping in to say that the current issue that is being discussed has been
    very informative to me and best of all civil, I like that. Great reading!

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    Quote Originally Posted by demarinis5 View Post
    I don't have any comment to add right now, just jumping in to say that the current issue that is being discussed has been
    very informative to me and best of all civil, I like that. Great reading!
    Yes, I agree - it has been civil and I did learn a few things.

    I just hope Ice Dancing fans accept my support for their sport even as I admit I don't get the judging very well.

    Sometimes isn't enough to just love watching something?

    In fact I don't intend to change that because I would rather go on enjoying it rather than getting twisted into uncomfortable positions trying to figure it out.

    Go Mirai

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