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Thread: Chan sees Japan blunders as wake-up call

  1. #91
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    Hi Lets Talk. I am always civil.

    The statement was specific to the JO. I didnt agree or disagree with Blue just felt that you were not looking at his post in the entiriety and extrapolating the first part.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by emdee View Post
    The statement was specific to the JO... just felt that you were not looking at his post in the entiriety and extrapolating the first part.
    Not sure what caused this assumption. Because either looking at the post in question in the entiriety or extrapolating the first part (which would actually put Chan in milder position considering how much worse he was than Plu at JO), why should Chan have a one fall cushion over Plu in the first place? Well, let's say I didn't get the answer.

  3. #93
    I got your program components right here. Pepe Nero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    This is not a wake-up call for Patrick or anyone else. It is just another invitation for us to line up at the CoP Kool-aid fountain.

    Fall on a 3T = 7.30 points

    Fall on a 4T "+ sequence" (there was no sequence; this is CoP-speak. Television announcers are not doing their job in educating the public about the rule, "when is a non-sequence scored as a sequence?" ) = 5.24

    Fall on a triple Axel = 6.35

    Fall on a triple Lutz "+ sequence" (lol) = 3.18

    After fall deductions, that's 18.07 points.

    There should be a mercy rule, three falls and they stop the program. (Alissa could have benefitted from this rule at Worlds.)

    The only thing Patrick will "wake up" to is the fact that one judge felt, overall. that his skating skills deserved a 9.00, his transitions between falls a 9.00, and that he "executed" his program to the tune of 9.50.

    No wonder Patrick can say in the last sentence of the interview that there is "no risk" in trying a quad flip at Canadian nationals. Indeed, there is not.

    I know, I know. It is hard to rotate four times in the air and then fall down. Just like the trapeze guy who attempted a quadruple somersault. He had a beautiful release, a position in the air to die for -- too bad about that missed catch.
    Quote Originally Posted by emma View Post
    ^what I loved about COP when it first came out was the points and score sheets - what I hate (and have for a while), is what MM just pointed out - points for falling AND points for non-existent attempts (the +sequence part). It's ridiculous.
    Is anyone getting points for non-existent jumps? My understanding is that "+sequence" is added to the protocol sheet when there is a fall (or some other error) at the end of the first jump in a combination, preventing the execution of the second jump. The "+sequence" is merely a helpful notation on the protocol sheet, because otherwise it would appear that a jump had been repeated (if it's planned by itself a second time in the program), making it invalid, and thus, ineligible for points. No extra points are given simply in virtue of the "+sequence" notation on the protocol sheet, as I (possibly incorrectly) understand it.

  4. #94
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    A new article with a lot of quotes from Patrick Chan and Kathy Johnson from yesterday:

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/patrick-cha...4121--oly.html

    And this article about Patrick:

    http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskati...rick-chan.html

    But was what happened at the Japan Open earlier this month cause for concern, or was it to be expected? Put another way, is it time for everyone to take a sedative and look forward to this weekend’s Skate Canada outing, the first of the Grand Prix circuit for Chan, with optimism?

    “Um… both,” says Kurt Browning, the four-time world champion and now CBC commentator, who is a good friend of Chan’s.

    “When he falls four times, in an event that was fairly important, and he looked fit for it, then something is not quite right and I don’t think it was the flu.”

    OK, so let’s panic then? Not so fast.

    “Sometimes, it’s a temporary thing and you can go, ‘Look, give the kid a break,’” Browning says.

    ETA:


    The video clip on what Patrick and Johnson said:

    http://www.therecord.com/videozone/8...an-s-new-coach
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 10-26-2012 at 12:30 PM.

  5. #95
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    “I’ve had some coaches, some judges and some people from Skate Canada say, ‘You’ve really matured as an athlete.’”
    I thought so, too. Chan's skating has matured, beautiful as a poem.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe Nero View Post
    Is anyone getting points for non-existent jumps? My understanding is that "+sequence" is added to the protocol sheet when there is a fall (or some other error) at the end of the first jump in a combination, preventing the execution of the second jump. The "+sequence" is merely a helpful notation on the protocol sheet, because otherwise it would appear that a jump had been repeated (if it's planned by itself a second time in the program), making it invalid, and thus, ineligible for points. No extra points are given simply in virtue of the "+sequence" notation on the protocol sheet, as I (possibly incorrectly) understand it.
    I think +SEQ is referring to when a second jump which should be put in combination is not. It's not necessarily when the skater has planned the combination. For example, a skater could have planned a 3Lz-2T (for example) as their first element, fallen on the lutz, and would just be credited with 3Lz. Later on, they had planned a solo 3Lz, lands it, but that is the one that would receive +SEQ because that's where they needed to tack on a combination since it's the repeated jump.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by burntBREAD View Post
    I think +SEQ is referring to when a second jump which should be put in combination is not. It's not necessarily when the skater has planned the combination. For example, a skater could have planned a 3Lz-2T (for example) as their first element, fallen on the lutz, and would just be credited with 3Lz. Later on, they had planned a solo 3Lz, lands it, but that is the one that would receive +SEQ because that's where they needed to tack on a combination since it's the repeated jump.
    A smart and competent skater would have added the 2T to the second 3Lz in this scenario. It is when a planned combo as the repeat is messed up that a skater has no recourse. That's why most would do the combo first if they could so there is a chance to remedy the missed second jump if necessary.

  8. #98
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    Another article about Chan:

    http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/2012/...d-slip-at-home

    "We stay out of coaching decisions," Slipchuk said. "We believe the skaters know what's in their best interests in terms of preparation and what they need to do to be ready to compete. We're there for them if they want advice and that's it. This happens, not just in figure skating, but every sport."

  9. #99
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe Nero View Post
    Is anyone getting points for non-existent jumps? My understanding is that "+sequence" is added to the protocol sheet when there is a fall (or some other error) at the end of the first jump in a combination, preventing the execution of the second jump. The "+sequence" is merely a helpful notation on the protocol sheet, because otherwise it would appear that a jump had been repeated (if it's planned by itself a second time in the program), making it invalid, and thus, ineligible for points. No extra points are given simply in virtue of the "+sequence" notation on the protocol sheet, as I (possibly incorrectly) understand it.
    No extra points, it's just the terminology I was making fun of.

    Instead of saying, "plus sequence" why don't they call it "plus moonpie." Oh, I know. They don't call it plus moonpie because there was no moonpie.

    But to be a little less silly, in a way it is giving skaters credit for doing something that they did not do. The rule says you can't repeat the same jump unless you do a sequence. But that's not really true. You can do a triple Lutz and then afterward a triple Lutz "plus sequence" (wink,wink).

    Better not do an extra sequence, though. Then you get no points at all, not even for the successful first jump.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    A smart and competent skater would have added the 2T to the second 3Lz in this scenario. It is when a planned combo as the repeat is messed up that a skater has no recourse. That's why most would do the combo first if they could so there is a chance to remedy the missed second jump if necessary.
    Well, yes, but I was just explaining the concept of +SEQ.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    There should be a mercy rule, three falls and they stop the program.
    I like this idea a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Instead of saying, "plus sequence" why don't they call it "plus moonpie." Oh, I know. They don't call it plus moonpie because there was no moonpie.
    Moonpie, hm, yum, delicious. I imagine it tastes like Chinese mooncake. I just had one the other day. sliced into thin pieces, eaten with milk tea.
    Last edited by skatinginbc; 10-26-2012 at 06:52 PM.

  12. #102
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    If you lived in Bell Buckle (not Belt Buckle), Tennesee, U S of A, you could attend the annual "RC Cola and a moon pie festival" ("RC" has three syllables, Arr-uh See).

    Here is a rendition of that fine old country blues classic.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79bojLBDAxs

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    If you lived in Bell Buckle (not Belt Buckle), Tennesee, U S of A, you could attend the annual "RC Cola and a moon pie festival" ("RC" has three syllables, Arr-uh See).
    And I guess moon pie is pronounced as "MOOUN PAH"

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    I like this idea a lot.

    Moonpie, hm, yum, delicious. I imagine it tastes like Chinese mooncake. I just had one the other day. sliced into thin pieces, eaten with milk tea.
    I think moonpie involves marshmallows and would be a bit sweet for most adults. If you know the cookie Mallowmars, it's almost like a giant Mallowmar. I love flag and country, but in this case I think mooncake beats moonpie.

  15. #105
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    "While Johnson's background is dance, she's worked with skaters for more than a decade. She focuses on proper use of the body's core, not just to strengthen the artistic side of performances, but also for the technical elements such as jumps and spins."
    "I do things differently. If I did the same thing as most of the other skating coaches, people wouldn't call me in to work with them," said Johnson, whose daughter was a skater."

    That's a scary part that I worry about. Dancers teaching figure skaters jumping techniques? Oh, ok, if my daughter is a dentist, than I guess I know how to be one too.
    Patric, get a real coach, there is a reason why figure skaters don't do things differently and don't hire ballet dancers as their figure skating coaches.
    Last edited by momskate; 10-26-2012 at 11:52 PM.

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