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Thread: Chan sees Japan blunders as wake-up call

  1. #61
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    I guess in retrospect minus the falls and pops there is a skeleton of a great program - probably the best including over Tak if skated decently. He got penalized for his mistakes and it affected the pcs but the potential is there if Chan can regain his humps.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    I guess in retrospect minus the falls and pops there is a skeleton of a great program - probably the best including over Tak if skated decently. He got penalized for his mistakes and it affected the pcs but the potential is there if Chan can regain his humps.
    I know skaters do camel spins, but I didn't know they had humps!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    I know skaters do camel spins, but I didn't know they had humps!


    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    It makes figure skating look like a wimpy, twerpy sport.

    In rodeo, if you fall off the bronco, then fall off the bull, then fall off your horse in calf-roping, and then your little sister falls off her horse in barrel racing, your total score for the meet is No Score + No Score + No Score + No Score. You also get No Score if you touch the animal with your free hand.

    Patrick Chan is the World Champion of Figure Skating. He is one of the greatest, if not THE greatest of all time. The boy fell down four times. Where's the hook? Where's the gong?

    True, the security of his edges of his edges, his speed across the ice, the passionate soul of his choreographer -- these send the CoP into paroxysms of ecstasy. Still ... bah! humbug!
    You cannot dismiss a skating with certain number of falls because skating is not all about the jumps. The hook is he finished last and has -14.11 points less compared with the one above him. Math, I more and more don't understand your positions.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 10-09-2012 at 09:21 PM.

  4. #64
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    Mathman misses chanting SIX-POINT-OH, YO!
    Last edited by Tonichelle; 10-10-2012 at 02:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    It makes figure skating look like a wimpy, twerpy sport.

    In rodeo, if you fall off the bronco, then fall off the bull, then fall off your horse in calf-roping, and then your little sister falls off her horse in barrel racing, your total score for the meet is No Score + No Score + No Score + No Score. You also get No Score if you touch the animal with your free hand.

    Patrick Chan is the World Champion of Figure Skating. He is one of the greatest, if not THE greatest of all time. The boy fell down four times. Where's the hook? Where's the gong?

    True, the security of his edges of his edges, his speed across the ice, the passionate soul of his choreographer -- these send the CoP into paroxysms of ecstasy. Still ... bah! humbug!
    So why is rodeo a comparable sport to Figure Skating? If not, why are we again comparing apple to orange? Just because an X sport does something does not mean every other sport has to be similar, where is the logic in such comparison?

  6. #66
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    Well, both are judged sports where you are awarded points from each judge for technique and style. There are also requirements like, you have to have your boots in the right position before the first buck and you can't touch down with the free hand.

    They are also similar in that if you fall, sorry, cowboy, your ride is over. (Oh wait...never mind. )

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    rodeo goers, though, don't chant the perfect score, though...

    and they're mainly hoping for falls and gorings...

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    ...and they're mainly hoping for falls and gorings...
    Michelle Kwan once said that she never watched her competitors' performances on the backstage monitor because she didn't want a television camera to catch her going, "Fall, fall!"

  9. #69
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    I miss the simplicity of 6.0 and lots of people prefer 0.0 for a splat. We all understand the idea that making the effort should be rewarded, but it is too complicated. Fortunately the numbers are usually manipulated to be like the old ordinals. Usually, the best skater still wins, though every season there are and will be controversy. ITA MM (Larry-great name!) with your idea that this was sadly so sub par for the WC. We are used to people who stand up on their jumps (esp from Canada) in mens. CVranston, Orser, Stojko, Buttle, Browning to name the greats. I do not think he is at 21 yet deserving "greatest" who ever lived. Contrast his jumping talent with MK. Her consistency and sheer medal haul might earn her one day 'best female skater in history under 6.0

    YuNa Kim has flaws but jumps consistently and has the speed/flow they prize highly. Yuna may one day be called greatest female CoP skater if she pulls gold from Sochi. I think greatest should include longevity and Pat will quit after Sochi. After age 23 we won't see much of him as he must move on and make money. He won't be a Jeff Buttle type pro. So we will never see if he can skate like Browning. Kurt is the best all around skater I have ever seen, male or female. And if Olympic medals and world medals plus GP are the measure, then Evgeni is in a class by himself, 6.0-CoP. Who is the Muhammed Ali of skating? It depends what measuring stick one uses. Why is he so inconsistent with his jumps? Can best SS somehow overlook a program with 4 falls? I think not. Would Yags have beat Goebel with two falls? Would Evgeni have won Gold with two falls?

    The champions of the past were skating differenly and setting up jumps securely. No transitions into jumps, or really hard transitions determine the outcome. The system will be tweaked. Not to start a fight, but a few times, I would have Chan silver, because the winner should be able to do a clean quad combo and 2 triple axels in a long. What he can do blade to ice is awesome, but I think we will see these struggles right into Sochi. I would suggest easier transitions into the jumps, and controlling his speed. He can still have nice flow in and out with more deliberate, focused jumps. Men's skating is exciting because of the jumps and for me great footwork.

    No one yet measures up to Kurt Browning in my book. Even though the Brians were better competitors at the biggest events, he remains someone awesome to watch. Sadly, we will never see Chan at 30 as a seasoned pro, with programs that push him as an artist. The money isn't there and he is clear he'll quit in 2014. A pity for us.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Michelle Kwan once said that she never watched her competitors' performances on the backstage monitor because she didn't want a television camera to catch her going, "Fall, fall!"
    when did she say that? surprised no one called her a bad sport!

  11. #71
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    I don't think she said quite that. More like she didn't want to wish someone to fall because of the karma it might incur. At least that's how how heard it.

    Darn that MK! You mean it was her that caused Sasha's nasty spills? See, she's no angel after all!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    when did she say that? surprised no one called her a bad sport!
    I have told that story so often that now I don't remember if it is true or if I made it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr
    I do not think he is at 21 yet deserving "greatest" who ever lived.
    There is a school of thought that says today's athletes are automatically better than the legends of the past, and tomorrow's will be even better. This is certainly true in sports that can be objectively measured -- records are broken each year.

    To me, Patrick's charm is in his originality. He brought something new to ice skating. Plus he had a devil-may-care-but-I-don't attitude as befits his age and temperament. It is possible, though, that he peaked in 2011. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I have told that story so often that now I don't remember if it is true or if I made it up.
    You'd think I'd remember reading that in the last 10 years on here...



    There is a school of thought that says today's athletes are automatically better than the legends of the past, and tomorrow's will be even better. This is certainly true in sports that can be objectively measured -- records are broken each year.

    To me, Patrick's charm is in his originality. He brought something new to ice skating. Plus he had a devil-may-care-but-I-don't attitude as befits his age and temperament. It is possible, though, that he peaked in 2011. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown.
    meh records are one thing, Joe Montana's record has been broken but he's still the best QB ever

  14. #74
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    I really don't know what to think when it comes to Chan and the way he gets scored. I'm not a trained skater but I've been watching the sport since 97 and COP still confounds me. For me, he might be the best mens skater of at least the last 20 years. I don't find what he does to be revolutionary, we haven't seen him necessarily do ground breaking things with his jumps etc... but for me he's found the perfect balance within the COP system.

    I am glad that other mens skaters are being vocal about their frustrations with the way PCS has been used. It's not Chan's job fix it or his fault if the judges favor him in an event he arguably shouldn't have won. But he does have this way of skating, I don't know what it is, even when he falls 4 times and pops two jumps, I still find him captivating. He doesn't slow down, he commits to each gesture, for me it's that perfect balance between the energy drop that would happen when Sasha fell, and the ridiculous overselling Emily Hughes would do for many of her routines.

    This skate was a disaster nonetheless, but I honestly think if he gets his act together and hits this routine, it will be one for the ages. Of the mens free skates we've seen to date I think the make up of it is just incredible. My favorite moment is probably at 3:08 into the triple loop. There's something about the repetition of sequence that is so eloquent to me and I wish was used a little more often in figure skating. Mao has it too her free skate this year and it's equally successful, but I digress.

    Let's hope this is a wake up call for him. He's got too much talent and this program could be too good for it not be fulfilled. But he's a smart guy, and he seems really dedicated, so I'm willing to bet he'll get it back together come Skate Canada.

  15. #75
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    Off Chan but I find other programs also deserving of mention. Jeremy's LP as done at Evening of Champions is just beautiful. It will be the sentimental favorite I think. Jeremy is a very special skater whose nerves alone keep him from many a gold medal. I lover Javier Fernandez. Big talent. And i used to abhor Amodio's costumes but he is incredibly fast on his feet. He is very fun to watch. A pint size guy who covers the ice so quickly. I love his footwork sequences. Hanyu's passion is hard not to watch, despite the sloppiness of his youthful charging. Who has his confidence? And Dai remains the consumate elegant artist who can also jump. Anyone think of him as the "Prince" (musician) of the ice? Sexy, unique, surprising in what he can do...I'm also a fan of Ricky Dornbush, Artur and i still love to se what Plush is trying. I guess seeing patrick live is the thing, they all say, that lets us see why he's sp special. Internet is frustrating.

    So for all you people who get to see a GP event or a WC, aren't you lucky. The rest of us must try to discern from what we can see on Tv or internet. Still, I saw much talent at JO and I don't think Chan will win every event this year. The men are very deep. The ladies too for that matter.

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