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Thread: Judges for 2013 ISU Championships

  1. #76
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    CoP has that same potential... if jumps actually got hit harder when you fell...
    Not so much, though. Even if you hit the jump you might already have lost because of an inadvertent under-rotation in the first minute that neither you nor the audience even knows you did. Or maybe the flying entrance to your (F)CCoSp didn't have a distinct enough fly on the entrance, and you received 0 credit for the element (as happened to Mao at the Japan open).

    At least a golfer knows that he missed the putt -- and so does the audience.

  2. #77
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    How does gymnastics "get away with it" then?

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Nice post - I actually mentioned some of the same things and suggested DWTS was a natural place for D/W to appear with the point of raising the profile of skating in the USA.

    Typically my post was met with a degree of scorn here - but no big deal as I know from experience I am right about this.

    In fact I can easily predict D/W appearing on DWTS would create a minor sensation.

    For those who dont get it - a "minor sensation" would be one of the best things to happen to US Skating since Sasha was still competing......
    janetfan, sorry that I missed your previous post re DTWS.

    You and I are not quite on the same page. I am too unfamiliar with DWTS to be comfortable with the notion of competitive figure skating aligning itself directly in any way with the show. I am skeptical that the entertainment spectacle that is DWTS would give Davis/White their due as athletes first and foremost. I am dubious that a D/W appearance on DWTS would earn respect for the sport of figure skating, and it might even be counterproductive. To me, creating "a minor sensation" would not be the goal.

    I just wish that figure skating could leverage the disproportionately large share of the Olympic spotlight it receives every four years and sustain that level of interest -- again, as a sport -- over intervening seasons.
    I merely was observing that DWTS has managed to turn the formerly "invisible" realm of ballroom dancing into a much-anticipated and much-discussed source of enjoyment and excitement for an enormous and loyal following.
    Last edited by golden411; 10-13-2012 at 04:27 AM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Not so much, though. Even if you hit the jump you might already have lost because of an inadvertent under-rotation in the first minute that neither you nor the audience even knows you did. Or maybe the flying entrance to your (F)CCoSp didn't have a distinct enough fly on the entrance, and you received 0 credit for the element (as happened to Mao at the Japan open).

    At least a golfer knows that he missed the putt -- and so does the audience.
    Maybe golf should start giving partial credits for those long putts that just miss.....they can be so heartbreaking I almost started to cry once:
    But how could that work - since in golf low scores beat high scores

    Voila - the use of GOE would work. In golf -GOE woud be good and +GOE would be bad.
    Isn't it about time those clunky shots that wind up in the water or sand get the penalty they deserve?

    I can just read it now "Mickelson shot a sizzling 66.7 edging out Tiger by .3 which is less than half a stroke."
    Mickelson also took advantage of the 10% bonus by scoring two birdies on the back 9.
    Last edited by janetfan; 10-13-2012 at 06:23 AM.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    How does gymnastics "get away with it" then?
    INHO they don't entirely get away with it. I think gymnastics has the same problem. in part. as figure skating.

    However, gymnastics does have sort of a do-or-die moment at the end of the routine -- the dismount. The crowd yells, "Stick it!" She does!! Yay!!! Give that girl a prize!

    What the general audience cannot judge is the difficulty of the routine. In that respect, sometimes the audience can't tell who won or lost (or why) until the computer tells them, just like skating.

    But even then gymnastics scoring has an advantage. They announce at the beginning, "If performed perfectly, this routine has a difficulty value of 13.5." Then throughout the routine the announcer can say, "Oops, that little bobble will cost her a tenth of a point off the 13.5 mark." If the audience keeps track, it makes perfect sense to them when she ends up with a score of 11.7.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    INHO they don't entirely get away with it. I think gymnastics has the same problem. in part. as figure skating.

    However, gymnastics does have sort of a do-or-die moment at the end of the routine -- the dismount. The crowd yells, "Stick it!" She does!! Yay!!! Give that girl a prize!

    What the general audience cannot judge is the difficulty of the routine. In that respect, sometimes the audience can't tell who won or lost (or why) until the computer tells them, just like skating.

    But even then gymnastics scoring has an advantage. They announce at the beginning, "If performed perfectly, this routine has a difficulty value of 13.5." Then throughout the routine the announcer can say, "Oops, that little bobble will cost her a tenth of a point off the 13.5 mark." If the audience keeps track, it makes perfect sense to them when she ends up with a score of 11.7.
    I could not agree more with you. I know less about gymnastics than skating but am able to understand the scores much better than skating these days.

    At the Olympics Komova made a mistake on her dismount and her score was still good. We then heard "she had the most difficult routine with the higest point value so her score seems fair."

    Even Scott could explain that pretty easily......

  7. #82
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    I seem to recall Paul Wylie on ABC and Tracy Wilson on NBC doing similiar "explanations" when the CoP first started. When ABC bowwed out entirely on their coverage, then we saw NBC stop educating on the system, too...

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    I seem to recall Paul Wylie on ABC and Tracy Wilson on NBC doing similiar "explanations" when the CoP first started. When ABC bowwed out entirely on their coverage, then we saw NBC stop educating on the system, too...
    Are you suggesting that ABC/ESPN simply bowed out - or were there other factors involved?

    Is it possible Speedy refused to consider the ratings and ABC/ESPN told him to take a "flying leap"?

    That of course would contradict the working theory that Cinquanta is a financial genius who saved skating

  9. #84
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    After looking over the judging assignments, as usual Ice Dance is the most "engineered" discipline.

    JUNIOR WORLDS:
    4 former SSRs: BLR, EST, UKR, UZB
    3 eastern Europe: CZE, HUN, ISR
    3 western Europe: FRA, GER, SUI
    2 NA: CAN, USA
    1 far East/other: CHN

    WORLDS
    5 former SSRs: AZE, RUS, UKR, UZB, LTU-which tends to score independently
    3 Eastern Europe: FIN, HUN, SVK
    3 Western Europe: FRA, GER, GBR
    1 NA: USA
    1 Far East/Other: AUS

    Not all the judges sit on both SD and FD; 9 are selected randomly for each segment.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Are you suggesting that ABC/ESPN simply bowed out - or were there other factors involved?

    Is it possible Speedy refused to consider the ratings and ABC/ESPN told him to take a "flying leap"?

    That of course would contradict the working theory that Cinquanta is a financial genius who saved skating
    Actually I believe the only reason ABC/ESPN stayed with skating as long as they did was because Doug Wilson was very active in keeping skating visible. Once he retired they saw no need to keep it.

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    because it still is political, just more behind the scenes. they have years to perfect it. (in fact over 100).

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post

    WORLDS
    5 former SSRs: AZE, RUS, UKR, UZB, LTU-which tends to score independently
    3 Eastern Europe: FIN, HUN, SVK
    3 Western Europe: FRA, GER, GBR
    1 NA: USA
    1 Far East/Other: AUS
    So this favors Davis and White, right? A U.S. judge in the mix but no Canadian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Maybe golf should start giving partial credits for those long putts that just miss.....they can be so heartbreaking I almost started to cry once:
    But how could that work - since in golf low scores beat high scores

    Voila - the use of GOE would work. In golf -GOE woud be good and +GOE would be bad.
    Isn't it about time those clunky shots that wind up in the water or sand get the penalty they deserve?

    And received a 1 point deduction for his lime green and salmon plaid pants which clashed with his chartreuse and aubergine spandex shirts with bugle bead trim.

    I can just read it now "Mickelson shot a sizzling 66.7 edging out Tiger by .3 which is less than half a stroke."
    Mickelson also took advantage of the 10% bonus by scoring two birdies on the back 9.
    And received a 1 point deduction for wearing clashing plaid lime green and salmon pants with a chartreuse and aubergine spandex shirt encrusted with bugle beads and cut outs on the back.

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    According to V/M fans, GBR and AUS will be in V/M's pocket, so no CAN judge doesn't matter much.

    OTOH, things look a tad rosier for Bobrova/Soloviev and/or Ilinyk/Katsalapov.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    According to V/M fans, GBR and AUS will be in V/M's pocket, so no CAN judge doesn't matter much.

    OTOH, things look a tad rosier for Bobrova/Soloviev and/or Ilinyk/Katsalapov.
    They need the levels. B/S I am joining in the excuse that their levels at finlandia were early competition levels even though their worlds levels always involve a 2 or more than 1 level 2. You could say B/S were at their worlds level in Finlandia!! LOL!! Hopefully their "better" coach can fix THEM. I know he can fix his work and fix pechalat bourzat but who knows if B/S can be fixed. Maybe not even a panel of russia ukraine kazakhstan, belarus, bulgaria can make b/s succeed with level 2's LOIL!!

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