Judges for 2013 ISU Championships | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Judges for 2013 ISU Championships

heyhey

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Russian judge gives a -3

Macassar88- you owe me a keyboard, LOL...obviously block-judging goes both ways but for Sochi, I see it tipping to the East....and seriously how did Alla Piseeva end up on the tech panel...oieee...
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
There is a big difference between how the Tech Panel and the judges function. Judges have subjective leeway, though ISU has been issuing more and more bullets points on how GOEs should be rewarded. But basically, judges make qualitative (subjective) calls on executions of elements and components on the performance. The Tech Panel do keen observation of specific verifiable aspects of the execution of elements. There may be occasional fine lines but mostly such calls are either yes and no or counting of numbers, aided by video recording if necessary, i.e. mostly quantitative/objective and almost black and white with occasional grey areas. A tech panelist making errors or questionable calls will not be keeping his/her job for long.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
A tech panelist making errors or questionable calls will not be keeping his/her job for long.

Just curious - I remember reading ISU reviews every event back at headquarters and judges or tech panel members who seem off will be warned and if necessary dismissed.

Do you - or does anyone at GS have the list of judges and tech panel members who have been dismissed from ISU events due to bad or questionable marks or calls?

Or is this kept as anonymous as the judges scores? ;)

I can't ever recall reading about an ISU judge/tech specialist getting suspended in the CoP era.

AFAIK ISU consisders every mark and call in the CoP era to be fine. :eek:
 
Last edited:

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Let's take a few random technical panel members, Judy Blumberg (USA), Maurizio Margaglio (ITA, but runs the FIN program), Mrs. Piseev (RUS) & Shae Zukowski (CAN)

All of them get paid to coach. Some of them get paid to choreograph. If some of their students are skating, how is it possible that they are not in a conflict of interest? And worse, is it not, when there are only 3 members of a panel. And the ISU does not give them a yearly stipend. They live on their coaching/choreographying/TV commentating/Finnish program running businesses, not on the ISU dime.

More, all of them will have their tastes and ideas influenced by the countries they grew up in, that they live in, and that they trained in. This is great when you have a sizable judging panel, but one does not have to postulate any crookedness to see that 3 is too few on a panel, given how wide a world this is, even in the small world of skating.

All ISU Tech Controllers are Judges. Don't think they can coach/choreograph. (Not sure about all Federation Controllers) Tech specialists are all former skaters but cannot judge - (unless they actually become a judge) a distinction with a (perhaps slight) difference.
 

Macassar88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Macassar88- you owe me a keyboard, LOL...obviously block-judging goes both ways but for Sochi, I see it tipping to the East....and seriously how did Alla Piseeva end up on the tech panel...oieee...

Okay I get that you thought it was funny, but why do I owe you a keyboard? :eek:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Do you - or does anyone at GS have the list of judges and tech panel members who have been dismissed from ISU events due to bad or questionable marks or calls?

The ISU does publish every year the list of judges who accrue enough "anomalies' (marks outside the corridor) to be called on the carpet for some sort of discipline. I will try to find the latest such report on the ISU site, but it requires some effort.

Typically about a dozen or so judges face some sort of reprimand each season and some serve suspensions during which they cannot judge ISU events, combined with retraining.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
The ISU does publish every year the list of judges who accrue enough "anomalies' (marks outside the corridor) to be called on the carpet for some sort of discipline. I will try to find the latest such report on the ISU site, but it requires some effort.

Typically about a dozen or so judges face some sort of reprimand each season and some serve suspensions during which they cannot judge ISU events, combined with retraining.

Thanks - but is this like dealing with "state secrets"?
Why is it so hard to find the information?
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
If MM can find it others can, too.

Apparently mathman hasn't been able to find it......yet. But it's only been 15 hours and maybe he's been busy - or it is really well hidden.
ISU is good at keeping certain things out of the public eye.

But I doubt that any judges or tech panel members have been dismissed for bad scoring or calls in the CoP era.

It's more likely several discredited judges and federation heads that were kicked out during the 6.0 era have been reinstated. :yes:

But what the heck - a couple of them were close friends with Cinquanta :p
 
Last edited:

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
I'm just puzzled: In general, when people talk about an individual person, it is perceived as unacceptable to attack individuals. But when the individuals formed an organization, these organizations which are run by individuals, such as ISU, the judges, USFSA, Skate Canada, French Federation, and Russian Federation, have become devil and are ok to attack without mercy.:confused: Why is that?
 
Last edited:

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Individuals feel powerless in the face of official organizations and feel that dehumanizing and demonizing those organizations is a means of asserting their power as individuals?

This may be especially true for organizations (e.g., government, huge corporations) that seem to hold a lot of power over our lives -- or in the case of skating federations, power over the individual skaters we enjoy identifying with. Also skating officials stand in judgment over those skaters' performances, so defying them feels like resisting being judged.

That's my theory, anyway.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Individuals feel powerless in the face of official organizations and feel that dehumanizing and demonizing those organizations is a means of asserting their power as individuals?

This may be especially true for organizations (e.g., government, huge corporations) that seem to hold a lot of power over our lives -- or in the case of skating federations, power over the individual skaters we enjoy identifying with. Also skating officials stand in judgment over those skaters' performances, so defying them feels like resisting being judged.

That's my theory, anyway.

Another theory might be those who blindly follow without questioning might as well live in a totalitarian state.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Apparently mathman hasn't been able to find it......yet. But it's only been 15 hours and maybe he's been busy - or it is really well hidden.

Still looking. :)

It is somewhat of a chore to find things on the ISU site because you have to comb through the list of old ISU Communications. The search feature is not as helpful as it might be. It is usually easier just to use Google.

Anyway, here is an old "summary" of action by the ISU judges' oversight committee. (Scroll down to paragraph 11, page 5.)

http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1475

I believe that this kind of summary is the only information that is made public.. We do not know the names of the individual judges. An "Assessment 3" is the worst and carries some sort of penalty more than just a reprimand or warning.

Judges and officials also face discipline for breaking various breaches of the ethical code. Last year two Swedish judges who were sisters both served at the same event (the men's novice competition at the Hague last year). One sister was a judge and the other was the referee, in violation of the rule that related people cannot serve as both judges and governing officials. The referee was suspended for one year from refereeing.

ISU Communications 1736:

http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3530
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
The ISU does publish every year the list of judges who accrue enough "anomalies' (marks outside the corridor) to be called on the carpet for some sort of discipline. I will try to find the latest such report on the ISU site, but it requires some effort.

Typically about a dozen or so judges face some sort of reprimand each season and some serve suspensions during which they cannot judge ISU events, combined with retraining.

I suspect that Mathman is talking about a more specific list, but ISU Communication 1742 from June 2012 gives the number of "Assessments (warnings)" issued to officials.
This page has a link to the PDF for Communication 1742: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db/isu_front/comms.php?q=1742&x=0&y=0
I've copied below excerpts from pp. 9-10 of the PDF.


12. Summary of Figure Skating Officials Evaluation 2011/2012
During the 2011/12 season the Assessments (warnings) were determined jointly by the assigned Officials Assessment Commission members and by the Technical Committees. The Council reviewed and ratified the following Assessments:

a) Single and Pair Skating:

Assessment 1: 15 Assessments
Assessment 2: 2 Assessments
Total season 2011/12: 17 Assessments
Out of which
7 concerning Program Components
9 concerning Technical Elements
1 concerning both Program Components and Technical Elements

Previous Seasons Assessments:
Total season 2010/11: 14 Assessments
Total season 2009/10: 24 Assessments
Total season 2008/09: 16 Assessments
Total season 2007/08: 12 Assessments
Total season 2006/07: 13 Assessments
Total season 2005/06: 29 Assessments
Total season 2004/05**: 42 Assessments
Total season 2003/04**: 20 Assessments
Total season 2002/03*: 11 Assessments

b) Ice Dance:

Assessment 1: 21 Assessments
Assessment 2: 3 Assessments
Assessment 3: 3 Assessments
Total season 2011/12: 27 Assessments
Out of which
9 concerning Program Components
16 concerning Technical Elements
1 concerning non-attendance at Initial Judges meeting
1 concerning late submittal of Referee report

Previous Seasons Assessments:
Total season 2010/11: 13 Assessments
Total season 2009/10: 17 Assessments
Total season 2008/09: 11 Assessments
Total season 2007/08: 21 Assessments
Total season 2006/07: 20 Assessments
Total season 2005/06: 25 Assessments
Total season 2004/05**: 56 Assessments
Total season 2003/04**: 9 Assessments
Total season 2002/03*: 4 Assessments

* = Assessments based on the previous 6.0 based Judging System.
** = Assessments based partly on the ISU Judging System, partly on the previous 6.0 based Judging System.

The concerned Officials have been notified about the Assessments by letter and through their Members.​
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Still looking. :)

It is somewhat of a chore to find things on the ISU site because you have to comb through the list of old ISU Communications. The search feature is not as helpful as it might be. It is usually easier just to use Google.

Anyway, here is an old "summary" of action by the ISU judges' oversight committee. (Scroll down to paragraph 11, page 5.)

http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1475

I believe that this kind of summary is the only information that is made public.. We do not know the names of the individual judges. An "Assessment 3" is the worst and carries some sort of penalty more than just a reprimand or warning.

Sorry, Mathman ... I was busily composing my post above when you posted the link to ISU Communication 1570.
Communication 1742 that I cited is a more recent version of the same summary.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Thanks Golden and also mathman.

It looks like Ice Dancing had more assessments than singles and Pairs combined as well as 3 level threes for Dance but none for sinlges and Pairs.

Does that mean there is still too much hanky-panky going on in Ice Dancing or is just harder to judge? Or a little of both?
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Another theory might be those who blindly follow without questioning might as well live in a totalitarian state.

I think you just want to ridicule an organization, any organizations, for fun even without proper evidences in many cases.:p

By the way, I do not blindly protect and/or follow any organizations.:popcorn:
 
Last edited:

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Still looking. :)

Judges and officials also face discipline for breaking various breaches of the ethical code. Last year two Swedish judges who were sisters both served at the same event (the men's novice competition at the Hague last year). One sister was a judge and the other was the referee, in violation of the rule that related people cannot serve as both judges and governing officials. The referee was suspended for one year from refereeing.


http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3530

Thanks for the links and digging this stuff out.

For ISU Communications 1736:

Interesting that one sister is suspended from ref duties for a year but not from judging. Pretty much a light slap on the wrist -but maybe it was an innocent mistake and the sisters might have a good reputation and otherwise clean record.

If assessmnet three is serious what are the penalties associated with it? A fine or suspension? Maybe it is determined on a case by case basis?
 
Top