What are Mao Asada's chances of becoming Olympic Champion in 2014?

**chapis** · 10-21-2012, 01:47 PM

everyone the top skaters recieve inflate pcs but in Yuna´s case and Patrick is almost ridiculous

, simply too much difference, and stop saying that poor Yuna is alone against the world because her federation, come on, I am almost sure that Yuna had got more money for isu than all federations together, is like she is her own federation, money speak.

**jaylee** · 10-21-2012, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by chapis

everyone the top skaters recieve inflate pcs but in Yuna´s case and Patrick is almost ridiculous

, simply too much difference, and stop saying that poor Yuna is alone against the world because her federation, come on, I am almost sure that Yuna had got more money for isu than all federations together, is like she is her own federation, money speak.

You're wrong. Yu-Na has never gotten a TES that was beaten by 12 other skaters and then also received PCS that was second highest at a competition. Now THAT is "too much difference." That was Mao Asada at 2012 Worlds (do you want more examples? I can find them.). Please cite an example of Yu-Na's having gotten such disproportionate PCS where she made so many errors that she received a lowly ranked TES score and yet managed to receive high PCS. Here's a hint though: you won't be able to find it, because it's Mao who has gotten what you term "too much difference" PCS with subpar performances multiple times.

Wow, your accusations and insinuations are getting uglier! What does Yu-Na's personal wealth have to do with anything? I am "almost sure" that Mao Asada has plenty of personal wealth PLUS a powerful federation. Who cares?

I repeat, can you provide some examples--facts--to back up your assertions? If not, then stop repeating your insinuations.

**l'etoile** · 10-21-2012, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by chapis

everyone the top skaters recieve inflate pcs but in Yuna´s case and Patrick is almost ridiculous

, simply too much difference, and stop saying that poor Yuna is alone against the world because her federation, come on, I am almost sure that Yuna had got more money for isu than all federations together, is like she is her own federation, money speak.

Whooh, boy.

**chapis** · 10-21-2012, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by jaylee

You're wrong. Yu-Na has never gotten a TES that was beaten by 12 other skaters and then also received PCS that was second highest at a competition. Now THAT is "too much difference." That was Mao Asada at 2012 Worlds (do you want more examples? I can find them.). Please cite an example of Yu-Na's having gotten such disproportionate PCS where she made so many errors that she received a lowly ranked TES score and yet managed to receive high PCS. Here's a hint though: you won't be able to find it, because it's Mao who has gotten what you term "too much difference" PCS with subpar performances multiple times.

Wow, your accusations and insinuations are getting uglier! What does Yu-Na's personal wealth have to do with anything? I am "almost sure" that Mao Asada has plenty of personal wealth PLUS a powerful federation. Who cares?

I repeat, can you provide some examples--facts--to back up your assertions? If not, then stop repeating your insinuations.

I am not imply a bribery but when the mexican soccer team play the sponsors pay so much money and I dont believe that they had half of raiting like Yuna in Korea, she is a star, figure skating need it, its good for the sport to have succes in a country, then I think isu is not against her, the contrary.
And no, I cant give you exact examples about scores, but I believe that olympic scores were too much, I think yuna win in a fair way, obviously, but I dont believe they need give her that inflation.

**drivingmissdaisy** · 10-21-2012, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by chapis

I am not imply a bribery but when the mexican soccer team play the sponsors pay so much money and I dont believe that they had half of raiting like Yuna in Korea, she is a star, figure skating need it, its good for the sport to have succes in a country, then I think isu is not against her, the contrary.
And no, I cant give you exact examples about scores, but I believe that olympic scores were too much, I think yuna win in a fair way, obviously, but I dont believe they need give her that inflation.

It isn't fair to blame the skater. I don't like the scoring system but the judges have to score on what they see. One example, I think it was 2010 Worlds, was Yuna doing a 2A that, IIRC, outscored one of Mao's fully rotated 3A. You're talking about a jump that 6 women have landed vs one that thousands of women have. Do I have a problem with that? Yes, but it isn't Yuna's fault or the judges' faults. I personally think the code should better reward successful risk taking and punish errors more severely. Often, PCS isn't affected by errors (nor should it be) so losing 3 or 4 points for a fall isn't enough when people are winning events by 20 or 30 points.

**mary01** · 10-21-2012, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by jaylee

Please cite an example of Yu-Na's having gotten such disproportionate PCS where she made so many errors that she received a lowly ranked TES score and yet managed to receive high PCS. Here's a hint though: you won't be able to find it, because it's Mao who has gotten what you term "too much difference" PCS with subpar performances multiple times.

Wow, your accusations and insinuations are getting uglier! What does Yu-Na's personal wealth have to do with anything? I am "almost sure" that Mao Asada has plenty of personal wealth PLUS a powerful federation. Who cares?

I repeat, can you provide some examples--facts--to back up your assertions? If not, then stop repeating your insinuations.

I don't know what you would call lowly ranked TES score, but yunas PCS score has always remained sky high even when looking back at her meltdowns like 2010 worlds fs where she won the fs, over a skater who gave a clean skate with only an underrotated axel.
The thing that bothers me with Kims high PCS score is that she gets it even when she makes big mistakes like 2009 Worlds, 2008 GPF. 2009 worlds in particular where she received a record breaking score, with a popped jump, and it's not small mistakes we are taking about it's falls or popped jumps, it's not a one or two time accation either, IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, because most of her performances consists of those kind of mistakes! if she was clean (and when i say clean i mean atleast clean to the eye with no distracting mistakes) i personally would have given her those high PCS and GOE myself, but she wasn't, and that's the scary thing about it.

just a reminder Mao only recently began to get the PCS score that she deserves she always had to rely on her high technical content to win the competitions which isn't exactly the case with Kim, not only her PCS but her Goe has always been very high, even through she rarely was clean.

(Im in no position to say who what deserves, I just want to point certain things out and let people judge for themselves)

and as a side note, I do like kim as a skater, i just hate injustice, that is caused by the judges obvious favorism.

**chapis** · 10-21-2012, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy

It isn't fair to blame the skater. I don't like the scoring system but the judges have to score on what they see. One example, I think it was 2010 Worlds, was Yuna doing a 2A that, IIRC, outscored one of Mao's fully rotated 3A. You're talking about a jump that 6 women have landed vs one that thousands of women have. Do I have a problem with that? Yes, but it isn't Yuna's fault or the judges' faults. I personally think the code should better reward successful risk taking and punish errors more severely. Often, PCS isn't affected by errors (nor should it be) so losing 3 or 4 points for a fall isn't enough when people are winning events by 20 or 30 points.

No, is not Yuna´s fault, I suppose that are the circunstances.

**pangtongfan** · 10-21-2012, 03:10 PM

Typical of a Mao thread to turn into Yu Na bashing from bitter Mao fanatics. Jealous is as jealous does. Yu Na is not responsible for Mao's obsession with the triple axel, her poor coaching choices, and her massive inconsistencies and decline since 2008, heck even since 2007 arguably. As for GOEs skaters with big and beautiful jumps with great flow out like Yu Na Kim and to a lesser extent Miki Ando will typically get much higher GOE than skaters with itty bitty jumps who flutz like Mao Asada. Not exactly rocket science. The judges are right to not ignore the difference in quality in jumps.

The funniest thing of all with the apparent complaints about Yu Na's scores is Yu Na has NEVER had a controversial win over Asada. Not even one. Meanwhile many felt Yu Na Kim should have won the 2008 Worlds and not Mao Asada, including Sonia Bianchetti in her blog. The only controversial result between the two went in Asada's favor. In fact so called judges favorite Yu Na Kim has never won a close decision in a big event, narrowly losing both the 2008 and 2011 Worlds, and blowing the field away at both the 2009 Worlds and 2010 Olympics. So much for that theory. Yu Na also was the one who suffered the embarassment of being ridiculously placed below a terrible 5 mistake Kostner at the 2008 Worlds, not Mao. In the event Kim were an American, Russian, or even Japanese she probably wins both those close events as well given the greater power of those federations, but you dont see her fans whining.

**l'etoile** · 10-21-2012, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by mary01

I don't know what you would call lowly ranked TES score, but yunas PCS score has always remained sky high even when looking back at her meltdowns like 2010 worlds fs where she won the fs, over a skater who gave a clean skate with only an underrotated axel.
The thing that bothers me with Kims high PCS score is that she gets it even when she makes big mistakes like 2009 Worlds, 2008 GPF. 2009 worlds in particular where she received a record breaking score, with a popped jump, and it's not small mistakes we are taking about it's falls or popped jumps, it's not a one or two time accation either, IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME, because most of her performances consists of those kind of mistakes! if she was clean (and when i say clean i mean atleast clean to the eye with no distracting mistakes) i personally would have given her those high PCS and GOE myself, but she wasn't, and that's the scary thing about it.

At 2009 Worlds, Yuna didn't break WR in FS which had one error, doubled salchow, not a popped jump. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME? When else?
PCS goes up when skaters have clean performances but not necessarily vice-versa like you can and would see in all disciplines. I'd suggest that you study your CoP more thoroughly. Plus, You of all people would and should know since it's Mao who's been consistently receiving high PCS mark compared to her way low TES mark throughout her career and that's the scary thing about your self-contadicting arguments all over this thread.

just a reminder Mao only recently began to get the PCS score that she deserves she always had to rely on her high technical content to win the competitions which isn't exactly the case with Kim, not only her PCS but her Goe has always been very high, even through she rarely was clean.

Then just list the competitions/protocols to back up your statements, please.
Yuna's GOE has always been high because she can actually jump, execute elements exactly. AND she does it extremely well. Nobody would question this quality of Yuna's. Moreover, do not forget that Mao gets high GOEs on her non-jump elements, too.
But, if Mao was to deserve the same amount of GOE in jumps as Yuna's why would she be reworking her technique all these years? Why are people in this thread are consistently claiming that she needs to improve her technique to become as near as to be the contender for Sochi?

(Im in no position to say who what deserves, I just want to point certain things out and let people judge for themselves)

I also just wanted to point certain things out and let people judge for themselves.

and as a side note, I do like kim as a skater, i just hate injustice, that is caused by the judges obvious favorism.

Then, why do you think judges like her? Are you also going with chapis's "theory"? And has it ever occurred that Yuna's always gotten "high" PCS because she actually possesses phenomenal presentation skills and skating skills and because judges are the judges of them even with political mess around them?

**chloepoco** · 10-21-2012, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by pangtongfan

Typical of a Mao thread to turn into Yu Na bashing from bitter Mao fanatics. Jealous is as jealous does. Yu Na is not responsible for Mao's obsession with the triple axel, her poor coaching choices, and her massive inconsistencies and decline since 2008, heck even since 2007 arguably. As for GOEs skaters with big and beautiful jumps with great flow out like Yu Na Kim and to a lesser extent Miki Ando will typically get much higher GOE than skaters with itty bitty jumps who flutz like Mao Asada. Not exactly rocket science. The judges are right to not ignore the difference in quality in jumps.

The funniest thing of all with the apparent complaints about Yu Na's scores is Yu Na has NEVER had a controversial win over Asada. Not even one. Meanwhile many felt Yu Na Kim should have won the 2008 Worlds and not Mao Asada, including Sonia Bianchetti in her blog. The only controversial result between the two went in Asada's favor. In fact so called judges favorite Yu Na Kim has never won a close decision in a big event, narrowly losing both the 2008 and 2011 Worlds, and blowing the field away at both the 2009 Worlds and 2010 Olympics. So much for that theory. Yu Na also was the one who suffered the embarassment of being ridiculously placed below a terrible 5 mistake Kostner at the 2008 Worlds, not Mao. In the event Kim were an American, Russian, or even Japanese she probably wins both those close events as well given the greater power of those federations, but you dont see her fans whining.

Actually, it seems there is just as much Mao-bashing in this thread from Yuna fans.

I think this thread should be closed before it gets uglier.

**miki88** · 10-21-2012, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by pangtongfan

In the event Kim were an American, Russian, or even Japanese she probably wins both those close events as well given the greater power of those federations, but you dont see her fans whining.

Are you serious with this statement? I remember clearly there were threads where her supporters were debating and arguing in her favor after those two events. And in case of 2008 Worlds, there were threads about it even 2 years after the event lol. Well, at least fans of each skater are consistent in their views. Your views, on the other hand, change frequently. One moment you are fervently for one skater and as soon as skater isn't doing well, you go against them with the same intensity. Although I do admit it's somewhat amusing to watch.

**pangtongfan** · 10-21-2012, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by chapis

everyone the top skaters recieve inflate pcs but in Yuna´s case and Patrick is almost ridiculous

, simply too much difference, and stop saying that poor Yuna is alone against the world because her federation, come on, I am almost sure that Yuna had got more money for isu than all federations together, is like she is her own federation, money speak.

Yes since Yu Na can fall 6 times and win every event like Chan can. Cute try though.

**pangtongfan** · 10-21-2012, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by miki88

One moment you are fervently for one skater and as soon as skater isn't doing well, you go against them with the same intensity. Although I do admit it's somewhat amusing to watch.

When one has no arguments baseless points and lies based on no reality whatsoever are the way to go, well for people like you apparently that is the case. Name me one example of when I did what you claim and which skater was involved, otherwise go back under your rock. Given your username I take it you just cant stand my not being a fan of your beloved "Miki" Ando, oh well cry me a river, atleast I am completely consistent on my views on her just as I am on each other skater.