Kurt Browning, Evgeni Plushenko on similar paths (article)

Buttercup · Oct 15, 2012

seniorita said:
Plushenko had asked Browning to choreograph him last season or 2010, I dont remember, but Kurt said he was busy engaged in other things. It would have been cool to watch them together.

I think Kurt decided not to do any more competitive choreography, I don't believe he enjoyed working on IJS programs. Maybe Plush can work on an EX with him? Other than exhibitions and SoI, the last skater I can remember him working with is Tugba Karademir in the Olympic season. He also choreographed for Abbott, Kostner, Joubert and Mroz but that was earlier (like 2007-8 at the latest).

Olympia · Oct 15, 2012

seniorita said:
Plushenko had asked Browning to choreograph him last season or 2010, I dont remember, but Kurt said he was busy engaged in other things. It would have been cool to watch them together.

Ooh, it would, Seniorita!

One thing these two champs have in common is that they're both, in their individual ways, consummate showmen. They love being on the ice and connecting with the audience. Years ago I watched a pro-am that would not have had any impact on the skater's ranking at the end of the year. Plushenko took part. He gave it his all, as if he were skating at a grand prix competition. He even did a quad! We were astounded. And from Vancouver in the Olympics, I still remember the confidence that radiated from him as he skated his long program. That guy was born to wear blades, and clearly so was Browning. Lucky us, to have them both.

I love the idea of a Browning exhibition program for Plushy. Can you imagine the footwork?

Tonichelle · Oct 15, 2012

Buttercup said:
I think Kurt decided not to do any more competitive choreography, I don't believe he enjoyed working on IJS programs. Maybe Plush can work on an EX with him? Other than exhibitions and SoI, the last skater I can remember him working with is Tugba Karademir in the Olympic season. He also choreographed for Abbott, Kostner, Joubert and Mroz but that was earlier (like 2007-8 at the latest).

seniorita said:
Plushenko had asked Browning to choreograph him last season or 2010, I dont remember, but Kurt said he was busy engaged in other things. It would have been cool to watch them together.

iirc, 2010 was when Browning and Joubert had their "issue" where there was a "miscommunication" on one or both sides and Browning used that - along with an incredibly busy season for him - as a way to duck out of choreography. He still does shows and exhibition choreography, so if Plushenko asked for that I'd bet Kurt would jump (no pun intended) at the chance!

noskates · Oct 15, 2012

noskates said:
I don't think being an Olympic medalist is the be all and end all criteria for deciding whether a skater is "one of the best" or any other adjective you might come up with. . He's never ever said an unprofessional word about another skater, he's been gracious and professional in defeat, and he's not just been out for his own glorification.

I clearly was not referring to Plushenko with anything in my post.

Bluebonnet · Oct 15, 2012

Olympia said:
I love the idea of a Browning exhibition program for Plushy. Can you imagine the footwork?

That would be wonderful! Plushenko is capable of complicated footworks! But in the competitions, he just took off some of them for the jumps. Look at his Ex. at 2006 Olympics! He was on fire!

Buttercup · Oct 15, 2012

^ Plushenko got level 4 for one of his step sequences at 2006 Olympics; I believe he was only second skater to get a level 4 (Dai was the first).

Tonichelle said:
iirc, 2010 was when Browning and Joubert had their "issue" where there was a "miscommunication" on one or both sides and Browning used that - along with an incredibly busy season for him - as a way to duck out of choreography. He still does shows and exhibition choreography, so if Plushenko asked for that I'd bet Kurt would jump (no pun intended) at the chance!

No, it was in 2008. Browning's version, as best as I can work out, is that Joubert was supposed to get one program from someone else (Evgeni Platov, I guess) and the other from him, but instead did both programs with Platov and never came to Canada. Joubert has never shared his version, but he's made some comments about trust and stuff like that. My guess, like you, is that it was a miscommunication that got blown out of proportion. A pity, as Joubert had really great programs when he worked with Browning.

Either way, all this predates his last (competitive) program, for Tugba Karademir, by a year or more.

bestskate8 · Oct 15, 2012

Olympia said:
Ooh, it would, Seniorita!

One thing these two champs have in common is that they're both, in their individual ways, consummate showmen. They love being on the ice and connecting with the audience. Years ago I watched a pro-am that would not have had any impact on the skater's ranking at the end of the year. Plushenko took part. He gave it his all, as if he were skating at a grand prix competition. He even did a quad! We were astounded. And from Vancouver in the Olympics, I still remember the confidence that radiated from him as he skated his long program. That guy was born to wear blades, and clearly so was Browning. Lucky us, to have them both.

I love the idea of a Browning exhibition program for Plushy. Can you imagine the footwork?

Yes, and if only Canada recognizes amazing achievement done by Plushenko and invites him to skate at any show or exhibition in Canada. At least Canadians would be able to see him life and compare to Browning, Chan, Butle.

Tonichelle · Oct 15, 2012

Buttercup said:
No, it was in 2008. Browning's version, as best as I can work out, is that Joubert was supposed to get one program from someone else (Evgeni Platov, I guess) and the other from him, but instead did both programs with Platov and never came to Canada. Joubert has never shared his version, but he's made some comments about trust and stuff like that. My guess, like you, is that it was a miscommunication that got blown out of proportion. A pity, as Joubert had really great programs when he worked with Browning.

Either way, all this predates his last (competitive) program, for Tugba Karademir, by a year or more.

has it really been that long? yikes! :laugh:

seniorita · Oct 15, 2012

Where had you seen Browning programs of Kurt if he didnt make them at the end?

Buttercup · Oct 15, 2012

seniorita said:
Where had you seen Browning programs of Kurt if he didnt make them at the end?

Do you mean his programs for Joubert? They started working together in 2006-7, Browning choreographed Metallica and All For You (which is my favorite Joubert SP ever) before they went their separate ways.

Teenes · Oct 15, 2012

Kurt's comments about the Joubert thing (from 2009):

Q: In the last few years, you seemed poised to take over the choreography world, choreographing for skaters like Evan Lysacek, Carolina Kostner, and Alissa Czisny. In particular, previous interviews made it sound like you were going to work with Brian Joubert through the 2010 Olympics. Why did you back off of it this year, and what happened with Joubert?

I had to put choreography for other people on the back burner, as they say. It was taking so much of my time and I was not doing my own training. I also could not follow up enough for the athletes. It was not fair to them and not good for my skating either. I was having knee trouble and not taking care of myself...not good. It had to go.

Joubert... well he was to come and work with me, but I had jury duty so I could not promise I would be available when he wanted to work so he went elsewhere. He was to join up with me later to do the short, but he neither showed up or called or emailed. I waited for some sort of word until I finally called out to him, but heard nothing for at least a week, so I emailed again and got the email back saying that work had gone so smoothly with his new choreographer that they just worked on a new short together as well. This is all fine, and it is his career, and I was telling him he needed to expand how many choreographers he was working with and not use just me, and so I would have been fine with all that, except he made it clear he was coming back for the short and I was clearing my schedule for the expected visit. How can a skater just get a solo done by another person and not even call to let me know I have no idea.

from http://www.kurtfiles.com/articles/article.php?id=765&cat=KURT

As for Plushenko, evidently Plushenko & his people were extremely interested in getting Kurt to choreograph for him, but Kurt thought about it and realized he was much too busy to fly out to Italy or Spain for a week, and definitely too busy for a continuing relationship, tweaking and refining a competitive program, so he said no. This was in early 2011. Since then, Kurt's decided not to choreograph competitive programs at all, full stop, and has been turning down all requests. Jeremy Abbott even said in a recent icenetwork article:

His respect for Browning is so great, it moved him to ask the four-time Canadian world champion to choreograph his new short. "He told me flat out he doesn't do competitive programs anymore," Abbott said. "I had picked a piece of music I knew he loved and said, 'If I do this, I would only want you to [choreograph] it.' He said, 'I love your skating and I love you as a performer, but I said no to everyone who asked me and it wouldn't be right to say yes now.' So if he couldn't do it, I didn't want to do [the music]."

from http://www.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120823&content_id=37232326&vkey=ice_news

So yeah, no competitive choreography from Kurt for anyone.

As for the original Twitter "controversy", all I have to say about that is that people overreact like crazy and bring their own biases to interpreting a mere 140 characters. Kurt singled out Buttle and Plushenko to praise, and was blown away by Plushenko's jumping, and instead of taking it for the compliment that it was that he'd be moved to comment at all on Twitter about it, people got all upset that he only mentioned Plushenko's jumping. Poor Kurt. BTW, with the exception of poor Patrick, Kurt thought all the men at the Japan Open were "out of their minds good".

let`s talk · Oct 15, 2012

Olympia said:
I love the idea of a Browning exhibition program for Plushy. Can you imagine the footwork?

Oh, no! If it's the similar crappy EX that he made fo Hanyu, please no for Plush!

Teenes said:
people got all upset that he only mentioned Plushenko's jumping.

It's not chronologically true. People who replied first were haters, who were not upset at all that he only mentioned Plu's jumping. They were quite happy and cheered for Kurt's twit as mocking Plu. Then Plu fans had to reply. Naturaly after Kurt's explanation a good deal of haters deleted their stuff cowardly, but not all. The only thing that doesn't look good is that Kurt in his reply didn't address Plu haters whom he originally provoked to write malicious things about Plu with his twit. He addressed only Plu fans, as if they were first, the ones and the only who misinterpreted his words. Such attitude looks petty to me.

Tonichelle · Oct 15, 2012

Thanks, Teenes! Knew you'd have the scoop!

Olympia · Oct 16, 2012

Thanks, Teenes.

Of course I'm sorry to hear that Kurt is not choreographing competitive programs at this point, but I can certainly understand why, because he's still so active himself, and he needs to pay full attention to that.

skateluvr · Oct 16, 2012

Haven't read the thread Olympia, and I expect Kurt will mainly make his dough by doing some choreo but he is quite well off as a major pro of every 90's comp. Big bucks then and he was in his prime as a pro-he won a lot-even ver Brian at times, or came second. I am not clear how CoP saavy he is just yet? I think the top skaters want programs by jeff Buttle because he really knows CoP, still has the tech goods and can really do all he choreographs, the nuances. I think Wilson, Bezic and now Buttle are the indemand choreographers with Bezic actually not doing CoP programs-or am I wrong? Also Kurt is a performer first and forever and he still gets invited to every show. His skills are all footwork now, but he is beloved around the world. Scott would likely still be asked if he were still skating at all.

When he hangs up his skates, I think he will become a serious and top choreographer. I hope he works with Orser, David Wilson and Tracy. The Cricket club would be the best in the world for singles skaters.

I disagree Let's talk that his Hanyu peice was a piece of crap as you so eloquently feel. But that's skating...one man's master piece makes another cringe. Hanyu has to learn to be more controllled and he is not maybe up to Browning footwork. I remember young talented Tara really struggling with a piece Kurt did for her. Her fast feet were definitely challenged.

When Kurt is at a place where he learns the system, I expect some very good if not excellent programs for the young males who dominate.

ETA to ad a direct question of Canadian fans, what is Bezic doing-just commentary at this stage orCBC Blades on Ice type stuff?

Tonichelle · Oct 16, 2012

skateluvr said:
When Kurt is at a place where he learns the system, I expect some very good if not excellent programs for the young males who dominate.

Actually the programs he HAS done for CoP have been very well received.

While he doesn't have as many options as a pro skater he's still doing very well for himself. he's not just living off what his wife rakes in. He's still a celebrity and he travels and does shows in Japan, etc... his knees might be giving up on him, but skating isn't!

gmyers · Oct 16, 2012

Using the same tweet to praise to Buttle as perfect all around skater and it was not clear he was even praising Plushenko just that he was just jumps compared to Buttle being an all arounder- even with the thumbs up sign or picture that I could not see it was just difficult and probably not the best thing to read praise of Plushenko.

Jeffrey Buttle, @J_Butt, taught everyone at the event the perfect combination of technical & magical skating. @EvgeniPlushenko is jumping &#55357;&#56396;

I just saw a box!! It was the combination of thoughts that mirrored exactly the Lysacek Plushenko debate of 2010! It was an accident that totally was perfectly 2010 all over just with Buttle instead of Lysacek.

Mathman · Oct 16, 2012

Mountain -- molehill.

Olympia · Oct 16, 2012

Agreed, Math.

There's also the possibility that Kurt meant the term "jumping" as a pun with a second meaning of "full of energy," as in "this joint is jumping."

In any case, there's no reason that Kurt would feel the need to insult or belittle one of the greatest skaters of his generation. Kurt doesn't have to make either himself or Jeffrey Buttle look good at Plushenko's expense. There's room for all three of them in the skating pantheon. Moreover, neither Buttle nor Browning are rivals of Plushenko's. Plushy is the only one of the three with a competitive career at present. I doubt that Kurt or Jeffrey are jockeying for position on the world stage with Evgeny. They've already made their mark on skating history, and so has Plushenko.

skateluvr · Oct 16, 2012

Again, anyone know what Sandra bezic is up to these days re choreography?

Kurt Browning, Evgeni Plushenko on similar paths (article)

Buttercup

Olympia

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

noskates

Bluebonnet

Buttercup

bestskate8

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

seniorita

Buttercup

Teenes

let`s talk

Match Penalty

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Olympia

skateluvr

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

gmyers

Mathman

Olympia

skateluvr

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