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Thread: 2012 Skate America Men's Short Program

  1. #136
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    I agree that Hanyu was terribly overscored while Taka was underscored. The difference between them should be not more than 3-4 points maximum. I don't get why for practically the same executed combo Hanyu got higher GOE than Taka. Also, his spins, being on better level than Taka's, were done slower and less impressive. Their step-segs as if of different levels is just a joke. As for the second mark, how good that they both performed eagles. Says a lot who is who in edges and SS. Taka's SP was elegant, emotional and mature. While Hanyu looked like a teen kid who were left home alone, found daddy's booze and decided to experiment with his elder brother's guitar, until social service knocked the door. The pace they chose for Hanyu is hillarious, it makes him look ridiculous and pathetic. Also, such an unfair score can alienate people against Yuzu, which is not the fate I would want for him.
    He was a little bit overscored, because Hanyu's coach is Orser. Don't you think? But I don't think the overscoring would harm Yuzu. People love him, they like what he is doing, thus adore his points. Unlike Chan. I believe, Kozuka's problem is the zero expressivity.
    Last edited by plushyfan; 10-20-2012 at 06:16 AM.

  2. #137
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    [QUOTE=let`s talk;667584] While Hanyu looked like a teen kid who were left home alone, found daddy's booze and decided to experiment with his elder brother's guitar, until social service knocked the door.

    you couldn't have said it better!!
    I totally agree with you!

    Crazy beautiful jumps, slow impersonal spins and an inadequate SP!
    a lot of wasted talent.

    But Canadian influence has already started

    Wonderful Taka!

  3. #138
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    I have to say I really love how Jeremy Abbott always attempts to stretch and reinvent himself stylistically. He is a quintessential artist! I always love his programs as it is always clear that he puts a lot of care and thought into what he is trying to portray and convey on the ice. He commits to every move and note of the music and he never bores us with knockoff choreography or dead tired warhorses we've heard millions of times before. He is a true original and I appreciate that so much. Abbott will always have a piece of my <3!

    I love the 3 guys at the top after the SP and I'd for them to be the podium at this event in any order.

    Sorry that Verner, Brezina, Mahbanoozadeh, and Razzano had rough outings. :(
    Last edited by museksk8r; 10-20-2012 at 06:35 AM.

  4. #139
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    Hanyu's skate was breathtaking. Yes the spins were slower than takas but they were in time to the music. The variety of the spins too was impressive. To me the difference between Taka and Hanyu is that Hanyu fills the ice better. His flow has much improved as well and the program has good transitions. The jumps were spectacular - havent seen the individual marks but must be very hige GOR.

    So happy for Taka that he has got back on track - hope he can make the skate more expressive.

  5. #140
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    Hanyu: Holy scoring Batman! Actually, looking at it, it's not that bad - there are enough cool moments in the choreography and he looks less clunky than before. Just not as great as 95 would suggest. Oh well - if any other the other field wants to compete, I suspect we'll start seeing two-quad short programs. Hanyu will be world champion in London. Being from the richest federation in the world has it's perks.

    Kozuka: Gorgeous. Should have been ahead PCS wise - fluid movement, lovely interpretation, beautiful choreography. Too bad he's getting dumped on for the new kid.

    Abbott: I thought Rippon was the one channeling Mad Men? Interesting, could develop into a good short program.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    He was a little bit overscored, because Hanyu's coach is Orser. Don't you think? But I don't think the overscoring would harm Yuzu. People love him, they like what he is doing, thus adore his points. Unlike Chan. I believe, Kozuka's problem is the zero expressivity.


    Even if he had let's say zero expresivity, a skater should not be punished across the board for that is the SS, CH and other marks.
    Those are unfair marks when compared with how much love Yuzuru got.
    I agree that program was as good as it gets, but 10 points difference?
    Common, you got to be kidding me.

  7. #142
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Hanyu: My goodness he is talented! I see a lot of improvement in his skating. His jumps are exquisite. I believe that this will be a Golden year for him leading up to the big game.

    Kozuka: I thought he was just fabulous. Loved everything about this program. Low balled on PC's in my opinion.

    Jeremy: I really liked this program. A few glitches to be worked out, but very nice.

    Machida: I was impressed. I enjoyed his performance very much.

  8. #143
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    Yuzru – I actually expected him to bomb, well, I still expect him to bomb his LP tonight. That said, I’m rather amazed by his artistry. He pulls classical music, powerful OST, and now sexy blues well! Wow. He can skate to such diverse styles at such a young age. Good for him.

    Jeremy – I also think the program does not suit him well, but for me, anything from Jeremy is a treat. I like that he’s trying to do the quad out of new entrance. Looking forward to watching his LP tonight. That hair was awful though, wish he’ll change it.

    Kozuka – he tried to be a Takahashi clone last season with Inner Urge program but failed. He saw the audience and the judges liked Yuzru’s powerful OST program, so this season he’s trying to be a Yuzru clone skating to powerful OST… but he showed no expressions and no connection to the powerful music. Of course the judges would not like this. The whole time he was skating I kept wishing Yuzru would skate to Exodus instead of him, just like last season I kept wishing Takahashi would skate to Inner Urge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    2. Takahiko KOZUKA (JPN) - 85.32
    Great skater, forgettable program. And that quad, in addition to looking bad, did not come out of steps. The judges need to start cracking down on this - guys, if you want an SP quad, do it in combo or do the steps. Fab spread eagle, does any active skater (bar Jonathan Cassar) do it better?
    ITA. Kozuka was gifted on TES. In SP, no steps preceding the solo jump = -3 GOE deduction. Only one judge gave him -3 GOE though. What were the rest of the judges smoking? This is so unfair for other skaters like Jeremy who tried to do the 4t out of steps and fell. I’m certain that if Kozuka did his quad out of steps, he’d fall too.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakeside View Post
    now sexy blues well!
    No, I don't get it. They arrested Sretenskij for being "sexy" to a minor. But Yuzu doing a sexy porn teen is just fine.

  10. #145
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    About Hanyu: last season people were saying that he was being underscored in PCS especially in the short, where he was getting around 39+. Now his skating skills are way better than they were before, he's more polished, he's world bronze medalist (so, his reputation grows) and he had an outstanding skate, probably the cleanest SP he's ever done: he obviously gets higher components marks. Now, how much higher do I think they should be? Well he was getting high 7s and 8s in skating skills last year, so considering his improvement I'd say a 8.5 isn't absurd at all, and his transitions are great. Performance was almost perfect. Choreography and interpretation -- rounded up to the other PCS, but that happens with just about everybody. So, is 43 too high? By a point, maybe. But what really made the difference in this score is the change in the rules, and the fact that he had a 3A and the combo in the second part of the program. And that all of his jumps were clean as a whistle and very impressive, with transitions in and out of them, same with his spins. So, huge technical score, and huge score overall.

    Is this program better than Daisuke's record-breaking program last year? Performance wise, no. Technically, they're close. But this two programs were judged under different rules, so let's talk, as a Daisuke fan, you shouldn't worry too much. If Daisuke skates clean and makes good use of the rules with two jumps in the second half, he's sure to beat the record again, and maybe reach 100. Kozuka being underscored in the PCS department on the other hand, is true and a sad fact.

    What I find funny (and not surprising in the least, I was waiting for this actually) is that for some of 'his' fans Hanyu was good enough as soon as he was, you know, young, cute, crazy talented but still lower ranked than their real favourites (Daisuke, Kozuka). They raved, saying that he was the future of japanese men's figure skating. Now he's still young, but he dares to change his coach voluntarily and choose a foreign one, he dares to keep getting better and to have a smartly choreographed program and break Daisuke's record even though the fact that he did doesn't mean much, and he becomes rubbish, non-expressive, ridiculous. Well, did you think he was going to be standing still, holding his Pooh bear waiting until Daisuke and Kozuka both retire? Which doesn't mean that he's now better than they are, it just means that he's better than he was last year and thankfully, it shows in his scores. Kozuka isn't as lucky, but I don't see why someone else besides the judges should be blamed for this.
    Last edited by Kalina; 10-20-2012 at 08:35 AM.

  11. #146
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakeside View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Great skater, forgettable program. And that quad, in addition to looking bad, did not come out of steps. The judges need to start cracking down on this - guys, if you want an SP quad, do it in combo or do the steps. Fab spread eagle, does any active skater (bar Jonathan Cassar) do it better?
    ITA. Kozuka was gifted on TES. In SP, no steps preceding the solo jump = -3 GOE deduction. Only one judge gave him -3 GOE though. What were the rest of the judges smoking? This is so unfair for other skaters like Jeremy who tried to do the 4t out of steps and fell. I’m certain that if Kozuka did his quad out of steps, he’d fall too.
    They're smoking it at every event; most of the men doing solo quads in the SP are not doing them out of steps. And the second half bonus this year is going to make the problem worse, because the skaters will prefer to do a 3-3 in the second half of the SP and get the bonus rather than tack a 3T at the end of their quad. Yay for old-fashioned people like Joubert, who I guarantee will go for a quad combo, bonuses be damned. I also guarantee that if he attempts two quads in the SP, the solo one will have a setup.

    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    No, I don't get it. They arrested Sretenskij for being "sexy" to a minor. But Yuzu doing a sexy porn teen is just fine.
    are you sure you know what porn is? And not just "I know it when I see it"?

  12. #147
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    Yeah, and the attempt to equate what Hanyu is doing to what Sretenski was alleged to have done is despicable.

  13. #148
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Yeah, and the attempt to equate what Hanyu is doing to what Sretenski was alleged to have done is despicable.
    That, too. I posted first and Googled later - at first I thought it was a mangled version of Sandusky. Which would have been repulsive as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    are you sure you know what porn is?
    Surely not. I am barely out of dipers. On a serious note, I have no idea what you know by the term "porn". In its traditional sense porn stands for the easy portrayal of sexual subject matter, precisely what Hanyu team have been doing with his image since the moment he moved to Canada. I find it hypocritical to approve a teen as a sexual object in one field and find it as a criminally wrong in another.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalina View Post
    But this two programs were judged under different rules, so let's talk, as a Daisuke fan, you shouldn't worry too much.
    We all know that. The rules are changing constantly, so the score in fs is not like WR in track and fields. That's why Plu at Moscow Worlds sitting in C sector gave the gesture "doesn't matter" to his wife when Chan's records score showed up. Because it is indeed doesn't matter in term of ISU moody reality. So, the way that you brought Dai here looks rather petty. Then you should have brought Plu as well since let's talk is a diehard-fan of both. In my post I was talking only about SA and this particular progs of two skaters- Kozu and Hanyu. Carry on.

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