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Thread: 2012 Skate America Men's Short Program

  1. #151
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Sretenski and Sandusky Off topic a bit, no?

  2. #152
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    Even if he had let's say zero expresivity, a skater should not be punished across the board for that is the SS, CH and other marks.
    Those are unfair marks when compared with how much love Yuzuru got.
    I agree that program was as good as it gets, but 10 points difference?
    Common, you got to be kidding me.
    No, i agree with you!!!! I also think that the 10 points are too big difference. I think Kozuka was underscored, i just said he has zero expressivity. And if you remember Kozuka was underscored in whole last season.


    And I like Dai, Yuzu and Kozuka, and i also don't think that Yuzu's program was sexy. He can 't be sexy today.

  3. #153
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    By the way, Kozuka's SP score, as low as I think it is, is a best ever for him as well, his previous best was 84.20 back in Turin 2010. But he managed that mainly also because he placed the 3A and the combo in the second half of the ogram, as Yuzuru did.

  4. #154
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Kalina, thanks for your post, I agree with everything you said. Sometimes some figure skating fans just seem like such drama-loving chatterboxes - like one good performance means you're as good as world champion, one bad one and you're pretty much done. World records don't really mean much, every event is scored differently. If I remember correctly, Daisukes 94-points record performance was said to not deserve so many points by many people too (and if I'm honest, I had to agree). Who knows if that new record will even survive this season, with the new rule, Takahashi and Kozuka in seemingly good form or Patrick with a probably stunning programm (it was as an Ex no doubt, and his LP is beautiful).
    And it was a 90+ performance even without the new bonus, so I think it's alright. A 41 in PCS would have been enough either, but I don't care that much. His TES is monstrous, and completly deservedly so. He definitly deserves to be in the lead, maybe 10 points is a little too much - but while Taka was underscored in PCS (I just hope that's his last season being pretty bad playing an influence and the jugdes will get it right if Taka continous to skate that good), there's the missing -3 for the 4T.

    All that said, my favorite performance was Tatsukis - that programm's fun, and he's so entertaining to watch!

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    Kalina, thanks for your post, I agree with everything you said. Sometimes some figure skating fans just seem like such drama-loving chatterboxes - like one good performance means you're as good as world champion, one bad one and you're pretty much done. World records don't really mean much, every event is scored differently. If I remember correctly, Daisukes 94-points record performance was said to not deserve so many points by many people too (and if I'm honest, I had to agree).
    In fact Kalina was the one who brought Dai 94-points here. A "drama-loving chatterbox" as you put it. Never mind.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    [B]All that said, my favorite performance was Tatsukis - that programm's fun, and he's so entertaining to watch!
    I did like it too, I kept feeling sorry or him, because he has to skate in Japan, therefore he has no sniff to get on the world team for the major events.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakeside View Post
    Kozuka – he tried to be a Takahashi clone last season with Inner Urge program but failed.
    I don't get it. Which of Dai's programs he supposedly tried to imitate?

  8. #158
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by let's talk
    In fact Kalina was the one who brought Dai 94-points here. A "drama-loving chatterbox" as you put it. Never mind.
    But who mentioned Dai's program till now or even first isn't the point. And if she wouldn't have mentioned it at all, I would have still wrote the same - because how people are argueing that Yuzurus score is too high reminded me pretty much of some reactions at WTT. I don't see a problem with comparing Yuzurus performance to Dai's or anything. What I meant with "drama-loving chatterboxes" is how people just love to overreact and jugde to fast. But that's a very general thing... look at how the russian girls are hyped, talked down, hyped again... let alone what you can read about Adelina sometimes is worthy to grind your teeth.

  9. #159
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    Here's my report from the competition late last night just in case you missed it:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Hey everybody I just returned my hotel room after checking out the men's and pairs sp live tonight. Some thoughts.

    For me the three Japanese men really brought it tonight. Machida was charismatic and skated a solid program despite not having a quad. He did a beautiful triple axel right in front of my section. And he did a great job expressing himself to the music. I think he took some tips from the Daisuke playbook!

    I loved Taka's program. It had that quiet elegance perfect for his fluid performance. And I was so happy he hit all the elements especially after all the reports of bad practices. It was such a delight to see his soft knees in person. TV does not do that quality justice.

    And Hanyu. Let me tell you, it was amazing to see it live. From the warmup you could see it in his eyes he was ready to bring it. He had a really high quality program. He hit all the jumps perfectly with beautiful transitions and at amazing speed. He got a standing o when he was done.

    Do I think he was overscored? Maybe by a few points, but, he really presented a challenging program and I don't think he could have done it any better. I remember liking it when I saw the Finlandia video, but I loved it after seeing it live and seeing the intensity and energy Yuzuru put into the program.

    Brian Orser ended up in the table next to me at the hotel bar so we end up striking a conversation. He was not surprised at Yuzuru's performance. He talked about how both sp and fs are very challenging for Hanyu, and that he has been working with Hanyu to do more run thoughs. He said that when he first met with Hanyu, he learned that he did not skate as much daily as someone wanting to be top caliblier competition should. But he pointed out that Yuzuru has been a gentleman, respectful and willing to learn. I think we all saw the fruit of that tonight.

    He was surprised by the score. He said based on his performance tonight compared to Finlandia, he expected a score more in the high 80's.

    On a lighter note, the topic of the Pooh tissue box came up and he said, "When he was not my student I used to make fun of that. Now I have to hold it." He said this in a good natured way. We all laughed.

    Bad night for both the Czechs. I liked Verner's program, despite the mistakes, there were things to appreciate. Brenzia's program did not do much for me, especially since. He made those mistakes despite not having a lot of transitions. His PCS was way too high for what he actually did.

    Mensnov program was decent considering that I was expecting to be disappointed by a Piña clone. His 4T-3T combo was solid. Majorov was Ok - nothing really stood out.

    I enjoyed Jeremy's program, he did a good job performing it! But his tech was not there; I've definitely seen him do a 3A much better. And he's had issues getting spins levels in the past, so the low TES did not surprise me. Armin had a respectable performance. I think he was hurt by being in the first group and a last minute replacement -- he wasn't even in the event program! I think he should have been ahead of Brenzina.

    Anyway, it was a real treat to be there!
    As for Taka vs Yuzuru: Yuzuru deserves the lead. I LOVED both programs, Yuzuru jumps were huge, clean and came out of some awesome transitions Taka did the jumps, but wasn't whistle clean on all of them, so the TES gap is not surprising and deserved. As for PCS, I agree Taka was underscored. But Hanyu definitely had this energy. I don't know how to explain it, but it just oozed out of him. He came ready to perform. He got a standing O the moment he was done. I'm sure that contributed to the higher score.

    So I think perhaps I'd have Yuzuru winning in PCS by a point instead of nearly four -so a 92 vs. 88 with the lead mostly in TES.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 10-20-2012 at 10:30 AM.

  10. #160
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    Thanks to everyone for discussion of the SPs - and especially those who saw it live like Mrs. P and Doris! So cool!

    ETA oh and thanks for all the videos too!!!! I could watch Hanyu's triple axel forever - wow, all the jumps were cool but that triple axel was
    Last edited by emma; 10-20-2012 at 11:07 AM.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by aniela View Post
    I don't get it. Which of Dai's programs he supposedly tried to imitate?
    It’s not any specific program, it’s the overall style Kozuka tried to imitate. Takahashi has skated to several sexy edgy programs and the judges liked them. Kozuka tried to imitate that sexy edgy style in his Innur Urge, Soul Man, and Bold as Love programs but failed because he never had the required showmanship. Yuzru tried the sexy edgy style for the first time and made it work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    So I think perhaps I'd have Yuzuru winning in PCS by a point instead of nearly four -so a 92 vs. 88 with the lead mostly in TES.
    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    but while Taka was underscored in PCS (I just hope that's his last season being pretty bad playing an influence and the jugdes will get it right if Taka continous to skate that good), there's the missing -3 for the 4T.
    First of all I do think Yuzru should have a four-point PCS lead over Kozuka because Yuzru’s transitions, ice coverage, and presentation were all so much better. But if we want to mark Yuzru down on PCS just to make some skaters’ fans happy, then we better be fair on TES first. Kozuka should have gotten a -3 for no steps preceding the 4T, which would make it something like 92 vs. 86, still 6 points lead.
    Last edited by lakeside; 10-20-2012 at 11:33 AM.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakeside View Post
    Yuzru tried the sexy edgy style for the first time and made it work.
    I disagree. He looked like a kid trying to act like a sexy rock star. I also, as a rock music fan, find the music selection uncool.

  13. #163
    Custom Title chapis's Avatar
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    oh, come on, like if Dai was the first man in figure skating trying to be sexy. A problem for me with Taka is the music, is always really boring, the only one that I liked it, well I really loved it was bold as love.

  14. #164
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Kozuka's PCS should be higher IMO-not Hanyu's lower. I'm glad at least Hanyu's PCS are being raised to where he can challenge Chan..Its good for the sport...And I think Hanyu deserves it...But Kozuka is woefully undermarked... Its the hypocrisy over Kozuka's scores that make meh with the Chan arguments.
    Last edited by bekalc; 10-20-2012 at 11:55 AM.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Kozuka's PCS should be higher IMO-not Hanyu's lower. I'm glad at least Hanyu's PCS are being raised to where he can challenge Chan..Its good for the sport...And I think Hanyu deserves it...But Kozuka is woefully undermarked... Its the hypocrisy over Kozuka's scores that make meh with the Chan arguments.
    I think Kozuka's PCS are low because he is Japan's no.3

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