10-22-2012, 04:32 PM
I feel like this scenario assumes a level of near-Machiavellian scheming that I'm not sure the federation is even capable of. (If they were that good at manipulating situations, wouldn't they have found some way to get Alissa Czisny off the World team last year?)
Originally Posted by pangtongfan
I get that the federation wants Ashley to shine, but don't they also just want to get good results, period? I mean, it's expensive to send these skaters to events. Why send them if they're just going to bomb? It doesn't make sense to me. If they're worried about Nagasu eclipsing Wagner, then just send someone with potential who could use exposure and international experience yet won't pose a "threat".
However, I admit I know little about federation politics, so you guys may be right.
10-22-2012, 04:33 PM
I personally think it must be great to be a training mate with Ross Miner (who is also coached by Johansson + Mitchell). Miner seems so level headed and I bet he's just a really nice guy that probably makes Christina feel at ease.
Originally Posted by mskater93
Also, I think what we're seeing is Christina simply being able to perform well in her new body. I had a feeling that last season was a bit of a throwaway season for her because she clearly was going through a major growth spurt and you could see that she felt pretty awkward in her body.
Here at Skate America -- she was CONFIDENT. When I saw her at the autograph session -- she seemed very much at ease.
More comments coming soon!
10-22-2012, 04:35 PM
Congrats to Ashley! I caught Ashley, Christina and Adelina FS yesterday on NBC. Ashley is not one of my fav but her performance was outstanding.
I was clapping along with the audience when she finished. Christina surprised the heck out of me, lovely performance and much improved.
Adelina is a breath of fresh air, not crazy about her FS music, ugh.
After reading about Rachel's poor performance I think I will pass on watching her FS.
Off to watch the Ladies SP!
Last edited by demarinis5; 10-22-2012 at 04:39 PM.
10-22-2012, 05:50 PM
You know, I can't believe I'm one coming to Rachael's defense. I'm not a big fan of hers at all. But, I think her long program was pretty well skated. She had a lot of energy at the end showing that her stamina is a non-issue. I have a feeling that after she took time off this summer, she lost both the flip and lutz jumps, and she's just now getting the flip back. The technique on that jump just looks very unsure at the moment. The one thing that was poor in her performance was her spins. She definitely needs help getting the levels up on those. She does look like she's gained some weight, but she's never had much of a skater's body type in the first place. I think people that aren't watching her freeskate due to the reports should check it out. It really was not the disaster that people are making it out to be, and the ending choreography was quite lovely. There are a lot of second tier skaters that would be over joyed to skate a program like that.
10-22-2012, 05:57 PM
I will comment more later, but Rachael had a decent performance. She stood on her feet and did five non UR triples. In fact, I felt the judges were a bit stingy on the GOE for those jumps. The loops, in particular, were quite lovely. She mostly lost points on non-jump elements, particularly with spins levels, which with an ankle injury it makes sense that she wouldn't want to abuse her legs by doing all those rotations.
Originally Posted by Ruffles78
10-22-2012, 06:01 PM
Actually it was quite obvious last year they badly wanted Czisny on that World team and it took a level of scheming for her to get the scores to put her there despite how she skated at Nationals. They ended up looking like fools for so badly wanting that in the end, but it is clearly what they wished for last season and got, fairness be damned.
Originally Posted by eyria
10-22-2012, 06:05 PM
She also lost points by having the lowest PCS of the entire field, the only one close to as low in the LP being last place finisher Sarah Hecken. Journeywomen Viktoria Helgesson with a poor LP includng a fall, a near fall, another stumble, and 3 downgraded jumps, still beat Flatt by an average of an entire point by component and 8 point in PCS in the LP. If that isnt a message where the judges want you to go, I dont know what is.
Originally Posted by Mrs. P
She did skate quite well. That is the whole thing. Even a good skate from her cant reach 100 points anymore, and her PCS suck in a huge way now. She basically has to land 7 triples if she wants to get close to 100 points since she isnt going to get points from anything else now.
Last edited by pangtongfan; 10-22-2012 at 06:07 PM.
10-22-2012, 06:48 PM
It doesn't require that much scheming. You just choose the skaters you want.
Originally Posted by eyria
You do want success, but there's only so much political capital - you've gotta choose how you spend it.
10-22-2012, 10:02 PM
Maybe I'm naieve but I think Rachael was picked over Agnes and Gracie because they had 2 assignments and couldn't have another/didn't need one. She was picked over Miral because Mirai had one, Rachel wasn't going to get one, and Rachael beat Mirai at Nationals and until last year was the most consistent skater we had. That's right: Rachael had one bad year. I can understand the federation wanting to see if the bad year was due to adjusting to college and she might rebound. Now, obviously, the answer is no. USFSA has no crystal ball.
Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue
If she keeps getting assignments in the future, I'll be more ready to buy into this conspiracy idea. And this is from someone who has never been a Rachael fan or even, most of the time, supporter.
10-22-2012, 10:20 PM
Flatt's score at the 2010/2011 GPF: 127.57
Flatt's score at Skate America, 2012: 136.09
It's more than one bad year, imo.
Host picks are selected first and there were no TBAs, so when Flatt was chosen, even Ashley didn't have two spots yet.
10-22-2012, 11:45 PM
Rachael was still in the top 10 for season's best in the 2010-2011 season, thanks to her performances during the GP season.
Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue
2010 NHK 161.05
2010 Skate America 162.86
2010/2011 GPF: 127.57
2011 Worlds: 154.61
2011 Skate Canada 128.22
2011 Cup of Russia 147.63
2012 Skate America 136.09
So it's more like bad year-and-a-half.
And since host picks are chosen first, it's likely that Rachael was chosen because it was assumed that Mirai would get two on her own because of her being #11 on the SB list. Who knows maybe USFSA was just as surprised for all we know.
10-23-2012, 12:27 AM
So back on the thread, here are my notes from the area:
Rachael Flatt: 92.37, total 136.09: Not her best, but considering the injury, a good effort. She did five non-UR triples and did not fall. The low score reflected low PCS and low level on spins. Given her current state, probably the best she could have done.
Alena Leonova: 106.67; total 153.49. Lots of little mistakes and initially felt she was slightly overscored. But looking back, she actually did six non-UR triples, though not perfectly, so she probably would have been in the arena of Christina's score if she did the program without the mistakes. She ended up finished fifth in the FS, which is about right. Otherwise, the program was blah. Didn't help she wasn't her usual selling self -- felt like a generic Spanish program.
Sarah Hecken: 85.98, 134.09. Sarah can only basically do 3S and 3T well. But in the past, she always had interesting programs to make up for the lack in difficult content. I give her credit for trying the 3F, but ultimately the low difficulty hurt her. She ended up doing 3F, 3S (2), 3T vs. Rachael's 3F, 3L (2), 3S (2). The program was utterly forgettable otherwise.
Haruka Imai: 107.82, 157.72 -- Personal best! And she deserved it. She had a few close calls but she managed to save the landings. And her non jump elements were great, as usual. She's sort of the Japanese Alissa Czisny for having the great non-jump elements but can easily miss the jumps and she is sort of a Japanese pre-2012 Ashley Wagner as she has tended to do poorly in the SP before going gangbusters in the FS. (In Nebelhorn, she was 9th before jumping to bronze with a 3rd place FS). She finished 4th in the FS and jumped two spots to 5th.
Viktoria Helgesson - 94.56, 144.85 -- Not her best effort. She struggled with the jumps. But she had some pretty elements, such as her footwork.
Valentina Marchai - 104.77, 158.79 -- I wish she had more transitions in her programs and she had a lot of long lead-ins into some of the jumps, but all in all she stayed on her feet and did some nice jumps including two really nice 3Zs. One of them came after a cool catchfoot spiral move.
Mae Bernice Mette - 101.54, 155.95 -- She was great here, thought not as good as the SP. She had some big jumps including a really great 3F-2T-2T combo. But that follow with a fall and a few two foots. I think France's ladies figure skating has a great future with Mette and Silete leading it.
Christina Gao -- 117.62, 174.25 -- WOW WOW WOW! The audience started cheering during her footwork sequence. The audience couldn't wait to give this girl a standing ovation and rightfully so. Besides the clear flutz, everything was clean as a whistle and even her non jump elements was very much improved. This was her best skate in her senior career for sure.
Adelina Sotnikova - 110.03, 168.96 -- Lots of great ice coverage and speed. A few mistakes, including the two-foot on the 2A and a fall on the 3F, but I thought the overall presentation would put her over Gao. Obviously it was the invalid combo that cost her the silver, so I think she would have easily received silver otherwise. But as some coaches say--just do the program. Adlibbing will get you in trouble.
Ashley Wagner -- 127.76; 188.37 -- A great start. She had a few wild landings, but she managed to land them like a cat. She had great transitions and speed. She looked confident and ready and she really projected herself to the audience, who gave her a standing ovation when she was done. Yes, it's similar layout to the programs she did last season, but I think that she's working the programs in stronger way now then she did last season and I think that really showed in her PCS scores. This program still has room to grow with 3T at the end of the 2A and probably some extra transitions, but this is good start.
Overall this was a great FS. We had a few falls, but for the most part, a good competitive segment.
10-23-2012, 02:06 AM
10-23-2012, 02:26 AM
Adelina's LP music is just dreadful. Even though the choreography fits the music, it's so deafening it makes the program look busy and rushed. Good choreo wasted in such a horrid music. I can't believe this lovely girl will be forced to listen to this mess everyday for a whole season.
10-23-2012, 06:36 AM
Thanks for your report Mrs. P!