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Thread: Rachel Flatt Competes Injured Again

  1. #31
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I think we will be seeing more & more of skaters skating injured. Here's why:

    The new minimum TES rules for 4CC's, Worlds & Europeans pretty much assure that all skaters who have a single assignment from their Fed, whether to a Senior B or a GP, pretty much have to skate regardless of their physical condition. They have to take advantage of that one assignment to try to make their qualificaiton.

    For example, Pang & Tong were skating injured at Skate America (Tong has knee problems), as was Jeremy Abbott (who is having a serious back problem). P&T were absolutely lovely, particularly in their exhibition program. Jeremy was not particularly lovely, and someone else could have used the spot...however, Jeremy needed it himself to get the qualifying TES for Worlds and 4CC's. He got the SP score for both Worlds & 4CC's, but not the LP TES for Worlds.

    Douglas Razzano got the LP score, but not the SP score for Worlds. His SP did not qualify for either event. I have no idea whether he was injured, but he skated a dreadful SP.
    Jeremy and P/T are fine because of their scores from last season. Rachael has it for the SP from Skate Canada. She only missed it in the FS by .56 of a point at SA. I hope she can get it at her senior B.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I think we will be seeing more & more of skaters skating injured. Here's why:

    The new minimum TES rules for 4CC's, Worlds & Europeans pretty much assure that all skaters who have a single assignment from their Fed, whether to a Senior B or a GP, pretty much have to skate regardless of their physical condition. They have to take advantage of that one assignment to try to make their qualificaiton.

    For example, Pang & Tong were skating injured at Skate America (Tong has knee problems), as was Jeremy Abbott (who is having a serious back problem). P&T were absolutely lovely, particularly in their exhibition program. Jeremy was not particularly lovely, and someone else could have used the spot...however, Jeremy needed it himself to get the qualifying TES for Worlds and 4CC's. He got the SP score for both Worlds & 4CC's, but not the LP TES for Worlds.

    Douglas Razzano got the LP score, but not the SP score for Worlds. His SP did not qualify for either event. I have no idea whether he was injured, but he skated a dreadful SP.
    You're probably right, Doris, and the idea of this makes me very uneasy. It's yet another way to chew up young skaters and discard them when their injuries wear them out. If skating becomes like gymnastics, where the career span is so brief that every quadrennial features an entirely different roster of skaters, the fan base will really thin out.

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    Just for the record: Nagasu scored 109.08 at Nebelhorn 2011---nowhere near the 127.76 Wagner scored at SA 2012. And Internatonal Bs are known for their tendency to overscore.

    Just a month after Nebelhorn, Nagasu went on to score 98.99 in the FS for 5th place at Skate Canada 2011; she was beaten by Tuktamysheva (117.81), Suzuki (119.44), Wagner (110.98) and Leonova (102.47).

    The problem with Nagasu is that she is like a box of chocolates: you never know what you're going to get. For the past two seasons in the GP, she has medaled at one event and finished off the podium in the other.

    BTW, she did go to Skate America in 2008, when she was the reigning US champion. She finished 5th.

    ETA: Nagasu scored 163.09 to finish 3rd at Finlandia 2012. If she had scored the same at Skate America, she would have finished 4th.
    Her jumps: 3ze, 2a+3t, 3f<, 3f<fall, 3lo+2t, 2a, 3lo----only 3 clean triples.
    Last edited by chuckm; 10-22-2012 at 08:47 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Didn't Gold have two OTHER events - and THAT's why she wasn't at SA?

    .
    Yea...hello...you seem to be way behind on this
    Everyone knows Gracie has two GPs.

    The question is why wasn't Skate America one of her two assignments?

    US Skating lost a chance to showcase their brightest young star the year before the Olympics.

    Why?

    Some say to make sure Ashley could win SA.

    That is basically the difference betweena competition and a coronation.

    No doubt Christina put a scare into US Skating by easily winning the SP.....and doubt if she will be invited back anytime soon

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    No doubt Christina put a scare into US Skating by easily winning the SP.....and doubt if she will be invited back anytime soon
    Christina DIDN'T win the SP.

    1-60.61 ASHLEY WAGNER
    2-58.93 ADELINA SOTNIKOVA
    3-56.63 CHRISTINA GAO

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Christina DIDN'T win the SP.

    1-60.61 ASHLEY WAGNER
    2-58.93 ADELINA SOTNIKOVA
    3-56.63 CHRISTINA GAO
    You missed my point . If I was judging Christina would have won the SP ....and by a comfortable margin.

    But that was never gonna happen in a "sport" like figure skating.

    The coronation took precedence .....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    A few things:

    2.) Consider that Rachael, while injured, still scored a 92 in the FS and did five non UR triples. What hurt her ultimately were a lack of +GOE in those jumps (I think she should have gotten some more, the jumps were quite solid) and the low levels on spins. Compare that to Caroline Zhang, who was not injured, could not break the 90 mark in 2010 or 2011 Skate America.
    Or compare Flatt's GP's last year, a tenth place finish at SC with a 74 in the FS and 128 total, and a 9th place at Rostelcom with a 147 total. Three GP's in a row with 3 poor performances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    You missed my point . If I was judging Christina would have won the SP ....and by a comfortable margin.

    But that was never gonna happen in a "sport" like figure skating.

    The coronation took precedence .....
    You make no sense. There was ONE US judge on the panel, and the technical panel was RUS-ITA-LAT. There couldn't have been a concerted effort to crown anyone. If anything, Sotnikova got the gentlest treatment from the judges, with ultrahigh PCS scores despite major mistakes in both SP and FS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    If anything, Sotnikova got the gentlest treatment from the judges, with ultrahigh PCS scores despite major mistakes in both SP and FS.
    She deserves high PCS. The SP error in particular didn't affect the program quality at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Just a month after Nebelhorn, Nagasu went on to score 98.99 in the FS for 5th place at Skate Canada 2011; she was beaten by Tuktamysheva (117.81), Suzuki (119.44), Wagner (110.98) and Leonova (102.47).

    The problem with Nagasu is that she is like a box of chocolates: you never know what you're going to get. For the past two seasons in the GP, she has medaled at one event and finished off the podium in the other.
    As long as you are cherry picking results, you might as well include last years CoC, Mirai in 2nd with a 173, ahead of 3rd: Sotnikova with 159, 4th K. Zhang with 153, 5th Gao with 152, 6th Murakami with 150 and 7th Makarova with 143. Fourteen points ahead of Sotnikova and 23 ahead of Murakami is nothing to sneeze at. But I agree with your box of chocolates comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    You make no sense. There was ONE US judge on the panel, and the technical panel was RUS-ITA-LAT. There couldn't have been a concerted effort to crown anyone. If anything, Sotnikova got the gentlest treatment from the judges, with ultrahigh PCS scores despite major mistakes in both SP and FS.
    Agree. Sotnikova was definitely gifted in LP PCS as the mistakes were jarring and really affected the performance. While normally Sotnikova would deserve much higher PCS than Gao, with Sotnikova's performance and Gao being more inspired than usual, I thought the PCS between them should have been roughly tied.

    I do agree on Christina deserving to win the SP or atleast be closer to Wagner and Sotnikova than she was. Wagner had a mistake and a much easier program jump wise, Sotnikova had the same jumps and a big mistake, so while those two have some stronger elements and much better presentation qualities they shouldnt have been 4 points ahead.

  12. #42
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-man View Post
    Or compare Flatt's GP's last year, a tenth place finish at SC with a 74 in the FS and 128 total, and a 9th place at Rostelcom with a 147 total. Three GP's in a row with 3 poor performances.
    I don't dispute that she had poor performances in the past, all I'm saying is that she didn't do bad considering she had an injury. And that she has fared better at this SA then other skaters at this same event have.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    OT -- Hey, Toni, cool new avatar!
    thanks... I did a fast job on it, so it doesn't look as it could... I love her dress though most don't.

  14. #44
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I think we will be seeing more & more of skaters skating injured. Here's why:

    The new minimum TES rules for 4CC's, Worlds & Europeans pretty much assure that all skaters who have a single assignment from their Fed, whether to a Senior B or a GP, pretty much have to skate regardless of their physical condition. They have to take advantage of that one assignment to try to make their qualificaiton.

    For example, Pang & Tong were skating injured at Skate America (Tong has knee problems), as was Jeremy Abbott (who is having a serious back problem). P&T were absolutely lovely, particularly in their exhibition program. Jeremy was not particularly lovely, and someone else could have used the spot...however, Jeremy needed it himself to get the qualifying TES for Worlds and 4CC's. He got the SP score for both Worlds & 4CC's, but not the LP TES for Worlds.

    Douglas Razzano got the LP score, but not the SP score for Worlds. His SP did not qualify for either event. I have no idea whether he was injured, but he skated a dreadful SP.
    As others have noted, skaters do not have to achieve the minimums in the current season if they did so at ISU-recognized events last season. There are quite a few skaters who already have the minimum for this season's Championships, including Abbott and P/T.

    This can be a concern for lower ranked skaters, however, as they are less likely to get the needed scores in the preceding season and less likely to get GP assignments this season to make up for it (senior Bs would still be an option, of course). Also for skaters returning after a year off, which is even more worrisome if the reason they missed a season is due to injury.
    Last edited by Buttercup; 10-23-2012 at 03:59 AM.

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    I looked up "Rachael Flatt Skate America 2012" and got her skating Firebird in that lovely dress from last season. Did I get the correct program? If so, her jumps look solid, but as some of you have said, nothing else stands out, except the lovely Ina Bauer.

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