Rachel Flatt Competes Injured Again | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Rachel Flatt Competes Injured Again

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I've defended Rachael more in the past 5 or so days than I ever believed possible but I don't think this is really fair. It's true that she shrugged in a whatever gesture but I think she did look disappointed and I am sure she was. I actually view this as more of a sign of her maturity- she shook off the low scores because she doesn't believe they reflect her self-worth and she knew there was nothing to be done then. I though her response was more dignified than that of the sobbing Leonova and I don't think her response meant she didn't care.

I am on team Rachael should move on but I think it's unfair to say she seems like she doesn't care or want to be there. I think it's quite obvious that she did want to be there and very much so- if she did not, she had every reason not to go.

I agree. Just because she isn't declaring in public or in a dramatic fashion her disappointment, doesn't mean she doesn't care. In fact, I sensed frustration in that quote from the Seattle Times article. You get the sense that she really wants to go at all cylinders, but can't because of the lingering injuries.

I thought Nigel's post said it well.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Well nobody is saying she's just coming on the scene. But certainly it's accurate to say that it's taken four seasons to establish herself at the senior level. Not saying her junior years don't count -- but she was coming through the junior ranks when there wasn't a whole lot of videos available to see those lower levels.

Just for fun....her is Ashley skating at the GP back in 2007....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL-DeUo0wiw

I don't think we have to argue about this. Today's system is difficult and I see it trending towards older champions......
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Nah wasn't arguing, just simply clarifying what I said. Thanks for posting the video!

Here is Ashley at Jr Worlds back in 2007. Easy to recognize her style - which is already pretty developed and mature....and much like what we see today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKhln6Ub7Wk&playnext=1&list=PL4EC45F19A8EA3E00&feature=results_video

BTW, I think that is true for most skaters..... if we watch Plushy at 16 we see something stylistically very close to what we see today.
 

waxel

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Mrs P. and tolusai, I don't think there is any problem with Rachael's feelings of self-worth. She is a very accomplished- and impressive- young lady. But the 'whatever' shrug has been in evidence for quite some time- as she's been putting up sub-par performances for quite some time (for whatever reason- injury/school/lack of training time). I do not enjoy watching the Kiss & Cry melt-down of other skaters, but Rachael's shrug has grown wearisome. JMO.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I though her response was more dignified than that of the sobbing Leonova and I don't think her response meant she didn't care.

I guess I have a different opinion. I liked that Leonova was disappointed with her SP because I think it shows she's hungry and eager to improve. I sympathize with Rachel's injury problem but there are so many areas that Rachel can improve besides the jumps that wouldn't put a strain on her ankle or back. Her technical content matches Caro's so, to me, it's clear she could be placing much higher by improving other aspects of her skating. (I'm not saying her results can match Caro's but her PCS has actually declined since her peak in 2010).
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
I guess I have a different opinion. I liked that Leonova was disappointed with her SP because I think it shows she's hungry and eager to improve. I sympathize with Rachel's injury problem but there are so many areas that Rachel can improve besides the jumps that wouldn't put a strain on her ankle or back. Her technical content matches Caro's so, to me, it's clear she could be placing much higher by improving other aspects of her skating. (I'm not saying her results can match Caro's but her PCS has actually declined since her peak in 2010).

I wasn't meaning to insult Leonova's response. While I do think it was melodramatic, I like Leonova fine (better I think than most here) and thought her response was normal enough. My point was more that different people show their feelings in different ways. Just because Rachael was not sobbing and shrugged doesn't mean she FELT nothing. I realize it may not have sounded like that, but that was what I meant.

As for the rest, ITA.
 

MoonlightSkater

On the Ice
Joined
May 17, 2011
I guess I have a different opinion. I liked that Leonova was disappointed with her SP because I think it shows she's hungry and eager to improve. I sympathize with Rachel's injury problem but there are so many areas that Rachel can improve besides the jumps that wouldn't put a strain on her ankle or back. Her technical content matches Caro's so, to me, it's clear she could be placing much higher by improving other aspects of her skating. (I'm not saying her results can match Caro's but her PCS has actually declined since her peak in 2010).

I found myself wondering if it is painful for her to push off that ankle at all, and if this contributed to her extreme lack of speed. She's been slow in the past, but never nearly as slow as she is right now. Warming up off ice she actually looked fit, though I think she's grown a bit in the chest department and that makes her look heavier, kind of like Elene Gedevanishvili. She would do well to invest in a bit more support under her costumes.

Or perhaps power work also hurts her ankle? Isn't one of her current coaches well versed in ice dance? You'd think they'd improve her speed if they could, but perhaps they can't right now.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Mrs P. and tolusai, I don't think there is any problem with Rachael's feelings of self-worth. She is a very accomplished- and impressive- young lady. But the 'whatever' shrug has been in evidence for quite some time- as she's been putting up sub-par performances for quite some time (for whatever reason- injury/school/lack of training time). I do not enjoy watching the Kiss & Cry melt-down of other skaters, but Rachael's shrug has grown wearisome. JMO.

Well how is she supposed to react? I think it's really hard to say how she is "supposed to act" when we have no idea what she is thinking or feeling. The shrug might be her way of expressing disappointment without being OTT.

For me as long as they're not cursing or doing some other outright offensive act, I don't think skaters should be obliged to act in a certain way once they're off the ice to satisfy fans. As toulsai said, people have different ways to react to things.
 
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mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Maybe she could do like the kid from Atlanta at US Senior B competition and throw up all over kiss and cry if you'd all prefer that reaction. :slink:
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Well how is she supposed to react? I think it's really hard to say how she is "supposed to act" when we have no idea what she is thinking or feeling. The shrug might be her way of expressing disappointment without being OTT.

For me as long as they're not cursing or doing some other outright offensive act, I don't think skaters should be obliged to act in a certain way once they're off the ice to satisfy fans. As toulsai said, people have different ways to react to things.

Definitely! We aren't entitled to any expectations of a skater's reaction post-skating. (Unless it's really out of line, as when Bonaly petulantly took off her medal during the presentation ceremony.) We sit and watch from the comfort of our couches. They're the ones who take their fate into their hands and skate alone in front of millions of viewers, plus all the hours of muscle-tangling training beforehand.
 

momskate

Rinkside
Joined
May 4, 2012
I found myself wondering if it is painful for her to push off that ankle at all, and if this contributed to her extreme lack of speed. She's been slow in the past, but never nearly as slow as she is right now.
Maybe she should loose some weight to regain speed back, she is too overweight.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
She also has no flexibility in her back. If you pause while watching her layback, her head is tilted backwards but her back is completely flat, and her leg is out to her side rather than more behind her. I believe she was the only skater to get -GOE on a spin, so that is an area she could improve.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
She also has no flexibility in her back. If you pause while watching her layback, her head is tilted backwards but her back is completely flat, and her leg is out to her side rather than more behind her. I believe she was the only skater to get -GOE on a spin, so that is an area she could improve.

She used to have quite a nice layback when she was younger -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hvYIYkNjfM#t=0m46s

I think the bad layback came from a back injury as well.

So I think her team needs to figure out a way to do a better layback to deal with some of those challenges...
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Sorry, I can't agree that Kwan never reached the level of the Olympic winners. Kwan is STILL the most recognized female figure skater among the American public. Sasha never reached Kwan's level of recognition.

All I can say is that the mania for Hamill was absolutely off the charts. She was equal to Jennifer Aniston/"Rachel" at the height of the popularity of "Friends."
After Hamill's Olympic gold, females rushed to copy her "Dorothy" haircut because they wanted to look like her, for crying out loud.

I like and respect Kwan, but in my opinion, the very nice interest in her did not match the utter obsession with Hamill.

Perhaps our perspectives reflect a difference among generations.
And I am talking about the widespread response of the general public -- not about the response only from serious skating fans. janetfan wisely pointed out earlier that those are two different perspectives as well.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Well, you know the drill - if you want recognition among the general public and you're a skater you have to win the Olympics. Or at the very least, get a medal...it's no longer enough to simply go there. I can just imagine all the magazines and companies waiting to pounce on Gold should she show any potential in this path...I do not envy her situation, the pressure will be tremendous...
 
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MoonlightSkater

On the Ice
Joined
May 17, 2011
Maybe she should loose some weight to regain speed back, she is too overweight.

I've criticized Rachael in the past about her weight not being the ideal competitive weight, but in person it looked like she might have actually lost some weight in her arms and legs, and she's smaller than a normal person. I think t.v. definitely adds 15 pounds for her. I do think she might still need to do some work to find her ideal competition weight, but I think that it is not something that would be significantly impacting her speed as much as it impacts her jumps and lines. I do think she gained weight in her bust that might not go away even if she loses weight elsewhere and that having gained weight in that area makes her appear heavier than if it had gone to some other part of her body.

I think her speed would probably be the area of her skating least affected by a weight gain. Constant injuries to her back and ankles could really affect it, though, as they'd limit her training time and her ability to push off her blade properly. There really isn't a great substitute for ice time when developing speed because you need to develop specific muscle patterns and muscular endurance (not the same as plain old cardio endurance). Lack of muscular endurance is not necessarily related to weight. Ironically, limited training time makes weight control more difficult and the whole situation becomes much harder to manage. I really hope that she can get a proper diagnosis and find an excellent physical therapist and get this all sorted out so that she can train properly again.

Like I said above, I have criticized Rachael about her weight in the past, and I'm not really a huge fan of her skating. I do think, however, that she showed at this competition that she's been working on jump consistency and her programs, while not overly exciting, were still somewhat pleasant to watch. She has room to grow, but I don't think she can much until she's fully healthy. The situation is so much more complicated than just a weight issue.
 
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