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Thread: Skate Canada 2012 Men's SP

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I watched all the top three and I have to say, Oda definitely got dumped on a bit too much here. He definitely deserved better +GOE on his elements (besides the 3A). I think he should have been in first. I like Javier's program, but he made too many little errors relative to Oda. And he is not 2 points better than Oda in PCS.

    PChiddy's SP is actually quite lovely and I think it will be great when he gets the tech. But yeah 82 for that execution is a bit high.
    Seriously, remember this is Patrick Chan you are talking about. It should just be notable and appreciated that Chan is not in first place -- he's won before with even more mistakes.

    Oda is generally loved by the judges for his amazing jumping ability, but Oda (especially compared to his compatriots) is really nothing to write home about presentation-wise. His team has come up with good music and choreo for him, but Oda is NOT better than Chan PCS-wise, nor even Javi, IMHO.

  2. #122
    Custom Title Rachmaninoff's Avatar
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    You know, I've never been a big Chan fan and I've complained before about some of his scores (although I'm pretty sure they're more a result of the scoring system and the things the judges tend to notice and value, rather than some Canadian-favouring conspiracy), but I quite like this SP and the music. I'm actually hoping he does get his jumps together this season now, whereas I was kind of indifferent to that before.

  3. #123
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    I'm a little torn - partly because I'm watching dance and not fully processing the men's...but I think I agree with Mrs. P that Oda deserves higher scores. But, again, my gut reaction was that Oda and Chan really captured my attention and Javi was great. Can't wait for the LPs!

  4. #124
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Seriously, remember this is Patrick Chan you are talking about. It should just be notable and appreciated that Chan is not in first place -- he's won before with even more mistakes.

    Oda is generally loved by the judges for his amazing jumping ability, but Oda (especially compared to his compatriots) is really nothing to write home about presentation-wise. His team has come up with good music and choreo for him, but Oda is NOT better than Chan PCS-wise, nor even Javi, IMHO.
    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, then. Oda definitely deserved better PCS than Javi and be at least striking distance of Chan -- not 5 points behind! That's like doing a triple loop!

    And I'm not exactly appreciating that that he was over scored less than usual...

    Though I did like the program! Geez, don't label me with that Chan haterade....rather I'm just drinking the Oda kool-aid.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 10-26-2012 at 08:56 PM.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I don't agree that Chan has that better skating skils than Oda. The boy's edges are DEEP!!! Oda got in the low 7s for the performance, which is pretty crazy....he should be getting high 7s at least!
    Chan has the best Skating Skills in the known universe. Have you been hiding under a rock? So what Oda has DEEP edges -- he still don't have Chan's SS. SS are about waayy more than deep edges! Oda is not a musical skater, and he's not that polished a skater. He looks fairly good with this program music and choreo (so he's obviously working more on presentation), but he's NOT better than quite a few guys. I can't believe I'm on goldenskate actually defending the fact that Chan has better SS than the likes of Nobunari Oda!!! Wow, what a strange world we live in.

    I really don't like Oda's costume either (on him anyway). We definitely do disagree whether we agree to or not. Enjoy the skaters you love, because the judges are often fickle. This is figure skating after all.
    Last edited by Art&Sport; 10-26-2012 at 08:57 PM.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I don't agree that Chan has that better skating skils than Oda. The boy's edges are DEEP!!! Oda got in the low 7s for the performance, which is pretty crazy....he should be getting high 7s at least!
    I agree Oda's skating skill was underscored, but his performance was rather forgettable. Let me put it this way: I have no desire to watch that footage twice--It bored me to death.

  7. #127
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    Ok...so I wanted to say that I agree with Mrs. P regarding Oda and Javi....I also agree with the others that Chan's skating skills really are in a universe untouched by others. But, my goodness, Oda has deep edges and great, great knees!

  8. #128
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emma View Post
    Ok...so I wanted to say that I agree with Mrs. P regarding Oda and Javi....I also agree with the others that Chan's skating skills really are in a universe untouched by others. But, my goodness, Oda has deep edges and great, great knees!
    Okay, maybe I jumped the gun by saying that Oda has better skating skills than Chan.....but Oda definitely has better skating skills than Javier. I love Javier, but seriously he's on a flat for much of that program...

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    I agree Oda's skating skill was underscored, but his performance was rather forgettable. Let me put it this way: I have no desire to watch that footage twice--It bored me to death.
    Thank you. I see what you see!

    Quote Originally Posted by emma View Post
    Ok...so I wanted to say that I agree with Mrs. P regarding Oda and Javi....I also agree with the others that Chan's skating skills really are in a universe untouched by others. But, my goodness, Oda has deep edges and great, great knees!
    No denying Mr. Oda has deep edges and unbelievably soft knees with great ice coverage. His jumps are quite often incredible. But, I don't feel any engagement with Oda whatsoever. I don't feel any passion or fire (sure he must have passion and desire beating within him), but it doesn't show for me in his skating AT ALL.

  10. #130
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Thank you. I see what you see!



    No denying Mr. Oda has deep edges and unbelievably soft knees with great ice coverage. His jumps are quite often incredible. But, I don't feel any engagement with Oda whatsoever. I don't feel any passion or fire (sure he must have passion and desire beating within him), but it doesn't show for me in his skating AT ALL.
    Well again, I disagree. I think the passion is there, it's just the quiet kind. And I don't think it would be right for Oda to have this super obvious fire that we see from the likes of Daisuke or Yuzuru....that's just not his character...(though Chaplin was definitely more cute...)

    I guess I'm just on team Japan to be honest. I want Daisuke, Yuzuru, Takahiko, Nobunari and Tatsuki to all go to worlds!! (I know I'm dreaming...)

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Well again, I disagree. I think the passion is there, it's just the quiet kind. And I don't think it would be right for Oda to have this super obvious fire that we see from the likes of Daisuke or Yuzuru....that's just not his character...(though Chaplin was definitely more cute...)

    I guess I'm just on team Japan to be honest. I want Daisuke, Yuzuru, Takahiko, Nobunari and Tatsuki to all go to worlds!! (I know I'm dreaming...)

    "Quiet kind" -- really NOT sure what you are talking about re Oda. For me, he is not an expressive skater. A skater doesn't have to visibly have bubbly facial expressions and "obvious fire" in order to enchant an audience with their skating. JEREMY ABBOTT, for instance. Nuff said!

    Oh well, I have a niece who lives and teaches in Japan. She loves it there. I just wish we had the kind of country here that loved and appreciated figure skating as much as the Japanese people do. Of the Japanese guys, my favorite is Dai, and I respect Kozuka, Hanyu and the upcoming Tatsuki, but all of them have the benefit of so much support from their country which enables them to have the best training and opportunities to develop their skating. Seriously, I think many of the U.S. men are just as, if not more talented than the Japanese guys, so I am pulling for Dai, but moreso for Jeremy, Johnny, Richard, Adam, Ross, et al. (which is understandable). Team Japan already swept SA, so I think the Japanese men will all do quite well this season, but only 3 of them can go to Worlds.

    BTW, I don't think Hanyu has an "obvious fire" either. Hanyu is still maturing and developing as a skater. Dai is on a different plane than all of his countrymen.
    Last edited by Art&Sport; 10-26-2012 at 09:23 PM.

  12. #132
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    For me, passion or fire don't = skating skills. I think Oda does a kind of emotional blank face when he competes; but this SP captivated me and drew me in (and I also like the costume, so go figure). In the end, I think I would have Oda higher but Chan and Javi with him in the top 3. I can't see the scratchy-ness that IP saw in Chan and I think I do see way more effective use of his whole body. I'm impressed despite the 'lack of a quad'. I liked watching the men (well, the ones I watched....haven't seen them all yet).

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    I wonder if Chan gets a deduction for music like Menshov
    The clock starts to count when the skater starts to move. And the clock stops when the skater stops, regardless the music. So if the skater's movement from the start to finish is within the time limit ±10", there will not be a deduction.

    However, I think Chan's SP ending was not well choreographed. The whole piece was very nice until right before the end. I don't think there is much for dispute for the placement and the scores Chan earned. It was quite fair.

    That ugly costume has to go.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachmaninoff View Post
    You know, I've never been a big Chan fan and I've complained before about some of his scores (although I'm pretty sure they're more a result of the scoring system and the things the judges tend to notice and value, rather than some Canadian-favouring conspiracy), but I quite like this SP and the music. I'm actually hoping he does get his jumps together this season now, whereas I was kind of indifferent to that before.
    Yes, I COMPLETELY agree with this statement.
    Granted, Skate Canada has always been a bit of a biased GP, but I have to say that the score (For the first time), actually seems right.
    Chan conveyed such emotion throughout the entire performance, and he didn't let go until the final second.
    Particularly in the footwork, he had so many unique moments to translate Rachmaminoff into something different.
    I pray he gets his jumps together...

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Gachinski never deserved to win bronze in 2011 -- he was over-hyped and over-scored, and in many ways was just as unpolished as he is today. The difference is he's lost consistency with tech skills. There are just too many guys who are better overall skaters. No way Gachinski should even be in front of Ross Miner with that skate. Ross lost a lot of points on the missed combo and got absolutely no help from the judges, whereas Amodio and Ten were over-scored. Elladj should be in front of Amodio and Ten.
    I can't think of anyone who deserved bronze at all except gachinski

    His quad ability just seems over! Not in any place in any competition since euros 2012! The rotational ability is still there but no landing ability! It's a real problem. If he's doing two quads in the free tomorrow he is very likely to fall twice at least

    Everything non jump was level 4 which makes the no quad and jump problems more unfortunate.

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