Skate Canada 2012 Ladies - Long Program (7:45 AM PST/10:45 AM EST) | Page 15 | Golden Skate

Skate Canada 2012 Ladies - Long Program (7:45 AM PST/10:45 AM EST)

katymay

Medalist
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Thank you!

LADIES FREE SKATE - VIDEOS & RESULT (Updated)

1. Kaetlyn OSMOND (CAN) - 176.45 Free Skate
2. Akiko SUZUKI (JPN) - 175.16 Free Skate
3. Kanako MURAKAMI (JPN) - 168.04 Free Skate
4. Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA (RUS) - 168.00 Free Skate
5. Elene GEDEVANISHVILI (GEO) - 160.52 Free Skate
6. Ksenia MAKAROVA (RUS) - 154.11 Free Skate
7. Gracie GOLD (USA) - 151.57 Free Skate
8. Amelie LACOSTE (CAN) - 151.44
9. Caroline ZHANG (USA) - 149.87
10. Polina SHELEPEN (RUS) - 124.29

Added Ksenia Makarova's free skate


Thank you! Akiko and Kaetlyn are both very beautiful skaters, both connect with the audience and have a joyful quality. However, Kaetlyn ran out of juice at the end, whereas Akiko did not. So, I have to agree about Kaetlyn being overscored to some extent, usually 'stamina' (or lack thereof) is part of the equation. Akiko's speed at the end is all the more remarkable given her age...it is easy to be the energizer bunny when you are a teenager, but a woman of 27?
As to 'connecting to the audience'-Gracie and Caroline both need some work in this area. Gracie in particular looks like a skater who is bored by her own skating. "Yeah yeah...doing my program for the 1,000th time...ho hum"
 

skfan

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
On another aspect of this topic, Caroline is in ninth? Oh, rats. Several of you have said she is very slow. Has she backslid from last year? Rats.


http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20121027&content_id=40080118&vkey=ice_news


icenetwork article quotes:

If they gave out awards for calm under pressure, Caroline Zhang, U.S. pewter medalist, would be at the head of the line. One of the straps holding up the skater's black dress snapped at the very start of her free to Puccini's "Nessun Dorma," prompting her to play it safe with her spins.

Nevertheless, she landed opening triple flip and triple Lutz combinations (both had deductions) as well as a three-jump triple loop combination, a second triple loop and two double Axels, and placed ninth with 149.87 points.

"I got distracted on the first start pose; my dress, the back of it, sort of fell," Zhang said. "I got a lower level on my flying spin, and I skipped the Beillmann because I was afraid it was going to fall. I guess it broke, and I tried to fix it in my program, but it wasn't happening."

"I was wondering if I should stop her performance, but I was told [by a U.S. Figure Skating team member] to wait to see if the referee would stop it," Zhang's coach, Peter Oppegard, said. "The opinion was it should keep going. Unfortunately, she took a few positions out, the ones where it was most dangerous for the dress to fall off: the Biellmann position at the end and the doughnut position. So, she lost some points, but I'm so proud of her for staying focused."



caroline was hampered by her dress. others have mentioned that perhaps the back injury is still bothering her. i think her competitive nerves held her in good stead under the trying circumstances.

very happy to see akiko's LP skated closer to its potential than at japan open. :)
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
From the same Ice Network article:
Suzuki could give lessons in absorbing judging system rules and counting jumps. Once she did the unintended single loop after her triple flip, she could not execute a planned triple loop-double toe because it would have made for too many combinations. She substituted a solo triple loop. That took her second triple loop, planned at the end of her routine, out of the equation, because skaters are not permitted to do two solo triples of the same variety.

"I knew I could not repeat another loop, and so I substituted a double Axel," she said. "I was thinking, thinking the whole time. It was hard because I've never even practiced it that way."

Well this is smart! Good for Akiko! She should give Oda lessons!
 

rvi5

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Ladies - Long Program (7:45 AM PST/10:45 AM EST)

That is what has everyone so puzzled. No, I don't think that the judges got together and conspired to give the Canadian skater the win.

That I could understand.

What I can't understand is how the ISU judges could watch the two performances back to back and give the scores that they gave.

If SubRosa is correct regarding how the judges judge, then Kaetlyn was lowballed in the SP in the mind of the judges, and over-compensated in the LP. What should she have scored if both SP and LP were scored correctly?


It is good some people are now making it clearly known in their posts, that they are not holding it against Kaetlyn herself. Unfortunately, these type of controversies can become a stigmatism that some people will eventually attach to the skater. Just look at those people who were quick to accuse Skate Canada of corruption because of what international judges decide.
 

bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
If SubRosa is correct regarding how the judges judge, then Kaetlyn was lowballed in the SP in the mind of the judges, and over-compensated in the LP. What should she have scored if both SP and LP were scored correctly?

She was correctly balled in the SP, PCS in the 6's. And should have had about the same scoring for PCS in the FS as well. Akiko deserved in the 8's pretty much across the PCS components in the FS. That didn't happen, and the difference cost Akiko her deserved gold medal.
 

Rachmaninoff

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 10, 2011
I don't think there's any conspiracy either, but the posters who have suggested that judges may be influenced by crowd reactions may have a point. They're human and they'll never be completely objective, and things like the mood and atmosphere in the building have to affect their perceptions to some extent. And I've been to competitions here in Canada; Canadian crowds can really get wildly enthused about cheering on "their" skaters, perhaps more so than other countries. I remember attending Skate Canada way back in 1996, and pretty much any Canadian skater who didn't fall multiple times got at least a partial standing ovation. When a Canadian actually goes out there and gives a medal-worthy performance, they go nuts. Don't know if that's changed since then (I haven't attended a live competition in a while) but it could be a factor.

They may still be influenced by skating order also, even though they really shouldn't be. I hate that.

On another aspect of this topic, Caroline is in ninth? Oh, rats. Several of you have said she is very slow. Has she backslid from last year? Rats.

I don't think she's backslid, but she hasn't made any visible improvements either. People were pointing out these same weaknesses at her breakthrough at last year's U.S. Nationals, and unfortunately it doesn't look like she's improved in those areas.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
If SubRosa is correct regarding how the judges judge, then Kaetlyn was lowballed in the SP in the mind of the judges, and over-compensated in the LP. What should she have scored if both SP and LP were scored correctly?

I think there is something to that. IMHO her short program was brilliant. Kaetlyn attacked everything and hit every note of the music. It could certainly be true that the judges were ashamed of themselves for low-balling her in the PCSs in the short program, so they tried to make it up in the long.

In the long she was called upon to show more nuance and variety. This (IMHO) did not play to her strengths like the go-go-go short program did. The cut of the music was not her friend (and I love Carmen all day long). Also, the fall on the opening jump and the mistake on the intended 3-toe combo did detract from the spell of the performance -- as technical mistakes always do, in my opinion.

If it were up to me the PCSs for the short program and the long should be switched. Suzuki's should be a little higher in the long program, in my inexpert opinion.
 

Violet Bliss

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
This ISU video explains how the TR marks can differ between SP and LP of a same skater, though the examples given have high SP score and lower LP scores. Jump to the end at 9:15 for the conclusion. It's about just one component but the same principle should apply across the board.
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
That is what has everyone so puzzled. No, I don't think that the judges got together and conspired to give the Canadian skater the win.

That I could understand.

What I can't understand is how the ISU judges could watch the two performances back to back and give the scores that they gave.

Well, they didn't watch those two performances back to back. :p Akiko skated sixth, and Katelyn skated ninth. It's easy to compare them back to back after the competition, but keep in mind that's not the order that the judges watched them in.
 

ILoveFigures

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Once again it is the same old, blah blah blah, the judges are corrupt, Skate Canada is a corrupt event, Skate Canada this, Skate Canada that... :disapp:

YOU KNOW WHAT?!?!?!?

If you are so extremely pissed EVERY single time you do not agree with the scoring, than become judges yourselves and DO something PRODUCTIVE about it, instead of just sitting there complaining. :rolleye: Or you can at least try to objectively explain WHY you disagree and come up with some productive analysis.

Just my 2 cents!
 

SubRosa

I love Lussi
Final Flight
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Country
Canada
Osmond's PCS went up significantly from SP to LP at Nebelhorn too.

If judges begin to perceive you as a contender, maybe they are more likely to boost your PCS.

I also think judges appreciate and/or are swayed by a skater who shows enthusiasm and attack. Laura Lepisto comes to mind here.

Well, they didn't watch those two performances back to back. :p Akiko skated sixth, and Katelyn skated ninth. It's easy to compare them back to back after the competition, but keep in mind that's not the order that the judges watched them in.
I wonder if the result would have been the same if Suzuki had skated AFTER Osmond.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
They may still be influenced by skating order also, even though they really shouldn't be. I hate that.

Nah, they are. Wagner at last year's worlds. case closed
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
I love Akiko dress, is maybe one of the best I ve ever seen. Pasquale did a great program for her, it topped her last one which was my fav.
Kanako's jumps bother me a little but her program is lovely, I like it more than Sp. I miss the Kanako of first senior year though.

I m sad Liza pcs dropped again both in sp and lp to where she had started last season but she fought the lp, for her puberty problems that was good overall.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
1. While Osmond may not deserve the PCS of the world bronze medalist, I think her PCS scores should be better than the world silver medalist.

2. Personally, I think Suzuki is a solid 8s skater, whereas Osmond is a struggling-for-7 type. I don't think she was as overmarked as everyone suggests more that I believe that Suzuki was lowballed (once again). Though yeah, Osmond was overmarked (thought she was undermarked PCS wise in the short program). I do think Suzuki struggles for support from the international community mainly because the Japanese Federation doesn't seem to support her as much as Mao, Miki or Kanako, but that's not excuse for the marks here.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
Great programs from the top skaters!

Kaetlyn: It wasn't as secure as the SP but she turned in a good amount of technical content along with a great program. She's something pretty special! I love how she performs to the crowd and the judges. It's really great to see and it's not something a lot of newbie seniors know how to do. I think she deserved her scores here...

Akiko: That SP wasn't so great; I wonder if she'll stick with it or go back to an older one? Her LP was absolutely gorgeous though...I love that program and that dress is SO beautiful. I think she was lowballed by the judges here. Akiko's PCS should have been high 7s and low 8s, not low to mid 7s. The judges screwed her over...:sarcasm:

Kanako: I adore her LP! That's how you do a tango piece! Brilliant! I loved all of the footwork and the steps at the end too...and that was a pretty solid effort though I am a bit worried by all of the UR calls she received. Hopefully that's just b/c it's the beginning of the season. Overall, great competition for her.

Liza T: I like her Dark Eyes program. It's obvious she's not 100% yet but given her injury, I thought she did pretty well here. I love the attitude and performance she gave this program...

Gracie: I'm still not impressed with her...I don't get the hype. Big jumps yes...but that's about it IMO.

Haven't seen Caroline yet but apparently she did okay given the circumstances...
 
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burntBREAD

Medalist
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
1. While Osmond may not deserve the PCS of the world bronze medalist, I think her PCS scores should be better than the world silver medalist.

2. Personally, I think Suzuki is a solid 8s skater, whereas Osmond is a struggling-for-7 type. I don't think she was as overmarked as everyone suggests more that I believe that Suzuki was lowballed (once again). Though yeah, Osmond was overmarked (thought she was undermarked PCS wise in the short program). I do think Suzuki struggles for support from the international community mainly because the Japanese Federation doesn't seem to support her as much as Mao, Miki or Kanako, but that's not excuse for the marks here.

This is exactly what my final opinion has become after watching the LPs a few times.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Once again it is the same old, blah blah blah, the judges are corrupt, Skate Canada is a corrupt event, Skate Canada this, Skate Canada that... :disapp:

YOU KNOW WHAT?!?!?!?

If you are so extremely pissed EVERY single time you do not agree with the scoring, than become judges yourselves and DO something PRODUCTIVE about it, instead of just sitting there complaining. :rolleye: Or you can at least try to objectively explain WHY you disagree and come up with some productive analysis.

Just my 2 cents!

What do you expect figure skating fans to be able to do about scoring at an international competition aside from discussing its injustices to the better skaters? Hmm? No reasonable person on this forum is going to argue that judge corruption earned Osmond's win. It's a simple matter of politics...well, mattering. At Skate America, Ashley Wagner got higher scores than she should have--her free skate, while impressive, most definitely did not merit a 127+. The conflict here is that Suzuki made an enormous resurge from day one to day two, and outskated Osmond by far more than the one-point margin that separated gold and silver, especially when you factor in Osmond's fall. It would be one issue if the Skate Canada pool was completely incapable and inexperienced, but with veteran skaters in the ranks, it seems a bit suspicious that you could miss a jump and still hang onto the gold medal, and even more so when your competitors skate clean.
 

gioccia

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
I think it's ridiculous to compare not only Osmond to Suzuki...but to Liza. I think she should have fallen behind all the 5 girls both in the SP and FS. She should have fotten good not HUGE TES and good not HUGE PCS. How come Liza got 117 with a clean skate last year and Osmond got 115 with THIS skate???
They gave you those scores to have her this score for the coming Worlds and then probably she will enter only Scate Canada again....thus she will have only inflated scores. Nobody will lift a hand to give her less than that.
About the judges...They are still in Canada ... Even if they are not Canadians... people can have good accomodation, good dinner, entertainment, presents...what not...and somebody whispers "Help our girl".
I am dissapointed... I hated the scoring of Canadians at the Olympics, ridiculously overmarked (but for Tessa and Scott) and now this...
But if you are a sportsman - you have to overcome this. Sad Lisa won't go to the GPF but you have no right for mistakes...
 
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