Skate Canada 2012 Ladies - Long Program (7:45 AM PST/10:45 AM EST)

[Rachmaninoff]

I don't think there's any conspiracy either, but the posters who have suggested that judges may be influenced by crowd reactions may have a point. They're human and they'll never be completely objective, and things like the mood and atmosphere in the building have to affect their perceptions to some extent. And I've been to competitions here in Canada; Canadian crowds can really get wildly enthused about cheering on "their" skaters, perhaps more so than other countries. I remember attending Skate Canada way back in 1996, and pretty much any Canadian skater who didn't fall multiple times got at least a partial standing ovation. When a Canadian actually goes out there and gives a medal-worthy performance, they go nuts. Don't know if that's changed since then (I haven't attended a live competition in a while) but it could be a factor.

They may still be influenced by skating order also, even though they really shouldn't be. I hate that.

On another aspect of this topic, Caroline is in ninth? Oh, rats. Several of you have said she is very slow. Has she backslid from last year? Rats.

I don't think she's backslid, but she hasn't made any visible improvements either. People were pointing out these same weaknesses at her breakthrough at last year's U.S. Nationals, and unfortunately it doesn't look like she's improved in those areas.

[Mathman]

If SubRosa is correct regarding how the judges judge, then Kaetlyn was lowballed in the SP in the mind of the judges, and over-compensated in the LP. What should she have scored if both SP and LP were scored correctly?

I think there is something to that. IMHO her short program was brilliant. Kaetlyn attacked everything and hit every note of the music. It could certainly be true that the judges were ashamed of themselves for low-balling her in the PCSs in the short program, so they tried to make it up in the long.

In the long she was called upon to show more nuance and variety. This (IMHO) did not play to her strengths like the go-go-go short program did. The cut of the music was not her friend (and I love Carmen all day long). Also, the fall on the opening jump and the mistake on the intended 3-toe combo did detract from the spell of the performance -- as technical mistakes always do, in my opinion.

If it were up to me the PCSs for the short program and the long should be switched. Suzuki's should be a little higher in the long program, in my inexpert opinion.

[rvi5]

She was correctly balled in the SP, PCS in the 6's.

Not in the mind of the judges, if they over-compensated in the LP (assuming SubRosa is correct).

[SkateFiguring]

This ISU video explains how the TR marks can differ between SP and LP of a same skater, though the examples given have high SP score and lower LP scores. Jump to the end at 9:15 for the conclusion. It's about just one component but the same principle should apply across the board.

[jaylee]

That is what has everyone so puzzled. No, I don't think that the judges got together and conspired to give the Canadian skater the win.

That I could understand.

What I can't understand is how the ISU judges could watch the two performances back to back and give the scores that they gave.

Well, they didn't watch those two performances back to back. Akiko skated sixth, and Katelyn skated ninth. It's easy to compare them back to back after the competition, but keep in mind that's not the order that the judges watched them in.

[ILoveFigures]

Once again it is the same old, blah blah blah, the judges are corrupt, Skate Canada is a corrupt event, Skate Canada this, Skate Canada that...

YOU KNOW WHAT?!?!?!?

If you are so extremely pissed EVERY single time you do not agree with the scoring, than become judges yourselves and DO something PRODUCTIVE about it, instead of just sitting there complaining. Or you can at least try to objectively explain WHY you disagree and come up with some productive analysis.

Just my 2 cents!

[SubRosa]

Osmond's PCS went up significantly from SP to LP at Nebelhorn too.

If judges begin to perceive you as a contender, maybe they are more likely to boost your PCS.

I also think judges appreciate and/or are swayed by a skater who shows enthusiasm and attack. Laura Lepisto comes to mind here.

Well, they didn't watch those two performances back to back. Akiko skated sixth, and Katelyn skated ninth. It's easy to compare them back to back after the competition, but keep in mind that's not the order that the judges watched them in.

I wonder if the result would have been the same if Suzuki had skated AFTER Osmond.

[R.D.]

They may still be influenced by skating order also, even though they really shouldn't be. I hate that.

Nah, they are. Wagner at last year's worlds. case closed

[seniorita]

I love Akiko dress, is maybe one of the best I ve ever seen. Pasquale did a great program for her, it topped her last one which was my fav.
Kanako's jumps bother me a little but her program is lovely, I like it more than Sp. I miss the Kanako of first senior year though.

I m sad Liza pcs dropped again both in sp and lp to where she had started last season but she fought the lp, for her puberty problems that was good overall.

[ImaginaryPogue]

1. While Osmond may not deserve the PCS of the world bronze medalist, I think her PCS scores should be better than the world silver medalist.

2. Personally, I think Suzuki is a solid 8s skater, whereas Osmond is a struggling-for-7 type. I don't think she was as overmarked as everyone suggests more that I believe that Suzuki was lowballed (once again). Though yeah, Osmond was overmarked (thought she was undermarked PCS wise in the short program). I do think Suzuki struggles for support from the international community mainly because the Japanese Federation doesn't seem to support her as much as Mao, Miki or Kanako, but that's not excuse for the marks here.

[Tonichelle]

Are you implying there IS a man version of skaters who manipulate the system? Just kidding.

if the skate fits!

[kwanatic]

Great programs from the top skaters!

Kaetlyn: It wasn't as secure as the SP but she turned in a good amount of technical content along with a great program. She's something pretty special! I love how she performs to the crowd and the judges. It's really great to see and it's not something a lot of newbie seniors know how to do. I think she deserved her scores here...

Akiko: That SP wasn't so great; I wonder if she'll stick with it or go back to an older one? Her LP was absolutely gorgeous though...I love that program and that dress is SO beautiful. I think she was lowballed by the judges here. Akiko's PCS should have been high 7s and low 8s, not low to mid 7s. The judges screwed her over...

Kanako: I adore her LP! That's how you do a tango piece! Brilliant! I loved all of the footwork and the steps at the end too...and that was a pretty solid effort though I am a bit worried by all of the UR calls she received. Hopefully that's just b/c it's the beginning of the season. Overall, great competition for her.

Liza T: I like her Dark Eyes program. It's obvious she's not 100% yet but given her injury, I thought she did pretty well here. I love the attitude and performance she gave this program...

Gracie: I'm still not impressed with her...I don't get the hype. Big jumps yes...but that's about it IMO.

Haven't seen Caroline yet but apparently she did okay given the circumstances...

[burntBREAD]

1. While Osmond may not deserve the PCS of the world bronze medalist, I think her PCS scores should be better than the world silver medalist.

2. Personally, I think Suzuki is a solid 8s skater, whereas Osmond is a struggling-for-7 type. I don't think she was as overmarked as everyone suggests more that I believe that Suzuki was lowballed (once again). Though yeah, Osmond was overmarked (thought she was undermarked PCS wise in the short program). I do think Suzuki struggles for support from the international community mainly because the Japanese Federation doesn't seem to support her as much as Mao, Miki or Kanako, but that's not excuse for the marks here.

This is exactly what my final opinion has become after watching the LPs a few times.

[ForeverFish]

Once again it is the same old, blah blah blah, the judges are corrupt, Skate Canada is a corrupt event, Skate Canada this, Skate Canada that...

YOU KNOW WHAT?!?!?!?

If you are so extremely pissed EVERY single time you do not agree with the scoring, than become judges yourselves and DO something PRODUCTIVE about it, instead of just sitting there complaining. Or you can at least try to objectively explain WHY you disagree and come up with some productive analysis.

Just my 2 cents!

What do you expect figure skating fans to be able to do about scoring at an international competition aside from discussing its injustices to the better skaters? Hmm? No reasonable person on this forum is going to argue that judge corruption earned Osmond's win. It's a simple matter of politics...well, mattering. At Skate America, Ashley Wagner got higher scores than she should have--her free skate, while impressive, most definitely did not merit a 127+. The conflict here is that Suzuki made an enormous resurge from day one to day two, and outskated Osmond by far more than the one-point margin that separated gold and silver, especially when you factor in Osmond's fall. It would be one issue if the Skate Canada pool was completely incapable and inexperienced, but with veteran skaters in the ranks, it seems a bit suspicious that you could miss a jump and still hang onto the gold medal, and even more so when your competitors skate clean.

[gioccia]

I think it's ridiculous to compare not only Osmond to Suzuki...but to Liza. I think she should have fallen behind all the 5 girls both in the SP and FS. She should have fotten good not HUGE TES and good not HUGE PCS. How come Liza got 117 with a clean skate last year and Osmond got 115 with THIS skate???
They gave you those scores to have her this score for the coming Worlds and then probably she will enter only Scate Canada again....thus she will have only inflated scores. Nobody will lift a hand to give her less than that.
About the judges...They are still in Canada ... Even if they are not Canadians... people can have good accomodation, good dinner, entertainment, presents...what not...and somebody whispers "Help our girl".
I am dissapointed... I hated the scoring of Canadians at the Olympics, ridiculously overmarked (but for Tessa and Scott) and now this...
But if you are a sportsman - you have to overcome this. Sad Lisa won't go to the GPF but you have no right for mistakes...