Page 7 of 19 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 278

Thread: Can Gracie Gold handle the pressure?

  1. #91
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    3,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Just who in the last few years could have gotten that 3rd spot back? We had our best chance in 2010 with Mira who was on a roll and Rachael who was know at the time as "Reliable" Rachael. Well we know what happened Rachael struggled in the LP and Mira basically choked. Mirai can't be counted on when the pressure is on and now she's having a hard time even rotating her jumps.
    All we needed was a 9th place finish at last years worlds and that third spot was ours. Ksensia was 9th with a score of around 149.40 . Both Agnes (with not even a particular great skate) and Zhang were WELL of clear of that mark at Four Continents.

    Similarly all we needed was an 8th place finish at worlds the year earlier that one with a mark of a 167 plus would have been harder.

    In both cases a US citizen was there.

    I won't get into 2009 worlds where yes I think Zhang and Flatt could have done it.

    The problem is the US selection procedures. How ridiculous how crazy is it to insist that at the very least you MONITOR your skaters before worlds. Worlds is three months away and injuries things can happen. So how hard would it be to insist legally that people are named provisionally but have to show a form of readiness right before Worlds.

    Rachael Flatt was badly injured and skating badly, if she had been made to show readiness do you think she'd have remained on the team? Alissa showed us right before Worlds and in practice that she could no longer land a single triple jump? Do you think its ridiculous to suggest maybe she didn't belong on said team anymore?

    It was that selection procedure that has doomed us. Any other federation would have monitored their skaters and told them to stay home if they can no longer land a freaking triple jump.

  2. #92
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4,817
    I agree if the U.S sent the right teams to Worlds they would have gotten 3 spots back the following years:

    2009- Flatt and Zhang
    2011- Czisny and Nagasu
    2012- Wagner and Zawadzki or Zhang

    In all 3 cases the situation could have been remedied had the judges at Nationals simply scored properly. Czisny should have fallen down to 3rd place after landing only 3 triples in her LP in 2009. Flatt made similar mistakes to Nagasu at Nationals 2011 and was clearly on the way down and a weaker skater at that point, Nagasu should have been placed 2nd at Nationals. Czisny should have been beaten by both Zawadzki and Zhang in 2012.

    Furthermore even after the poor judging at Nationals all those years I agree the skaters should have been monitored to prove their readiness right before Worlds and Flatt in 2011 and Czisny in 2012 undoubtably would have been pulled out of their already undeserved spots on the World team those 2 years in that case, as both were injured and clearly unable to compete at Worlds.

  3. #93
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,480
    Yes, it was annoying how it all transpired but the past is the past, and what's done is done. The only thing is now to focus on the present, and that is the US sending Ashley Wagner and Gracie Gold to 2013 Worlds. We can only go by what they've put down so far, and based on the evidence there is little reason for US fans to be hopeful. Even if Wagner gets over her slump, there's still Gold struggling to hold her nerves together in the FS. If Gold does get her head together, there's still Wagner who has been shaky in recent events. You get the drift...

    And BTW, there is NO guarantee at all that Zawadzki would have been able to manage top 9 at worlds last year. She has never been to worlds, and she has enough difficulty with consistency at smaller events...

  4. #94
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    3,073
    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Yes, it was annoying how it all transpired but the past is the past, and what's done is done. The only thing is now to focus on the present, and that is the US sending Ashley Wagner and Gracie Gold to 2013 Worlds. We can only go by what they've put down so far, and based on the evidence there is little reason for US fans to be hopeful. Even if Wagner gets over her slump, there's still Gold struggling to hold her nerves together in the FS. If Gold does get her head together, there's still Wagner who has been shaky in recent events. You get the drift...

    And BTW, there is NO guarantee at all that Zawadzki would have been able to manage top 9 at worlds last year. She has never been to worlds, and she has enough difficulty with consistency at smaller events...
    Well Agnes's placements at Nationals have been questionable and are pure exhibit of nationals at work. However all I have to say is did you see Ksensia's free skate that year... It really wouldn't have taken much.....

    Look I DO get why the Us judges like Agnes she has a lot of potential, high big jumps etc. And I think she could be a top top lady.. However, she's yet to really deliver her, so right now they are scoring her on potential rather than what she'd really get at the international level... Her PCS were way higher at this year's nationals than what she gets internationally?

    And the question again is why, giving she's not shown the ability to actual deliver at the top competitions. I can understand why Wagner was given the benefit of the doubt she's got a track record. But Agnes....?

    Now if Agnes were to skate well I'd give her huge scores. But why hold her up when she doesn't and why hold Gold up in the short as well. That's where I call unfairness to someone like Gao who has been consistently delivering all season long but not getting any where near this gifts.

    Or Hicks who yes has some work to do (so does Gracie) but unlike both Gracie and Agnes showed she could actual deliver two solid programs.
    Last edited by bekalc; 02-10-2013 at 05:21 PM.

  5. #95
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    232
    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Gao isn't going to help get that 3rd spot back either. To say because Gracie hasn't had the year everyone expected that she's not a competitor is ridiculous. The problem is way to many people expected her to dominate not realizing that she's a first year Senior who's inexperienced and who needs to develop at her own pace and not at the pace other people think. Next year she will know what to expect and she will either become a real force or just another skater who was way over-hyped by the masses and never lived up to her potential.
    Gracie is not a good competitor. Her problem is that she cannot handle her nerves. The difference between how she skates during practices and how she skates during competitions is shocking. Even the British Eurosport announcer, who runs the rink she trains at, stated that he had never seen her skate as badly as she did at 4CCs and the fact that she was overcome by nerves was written all over her face. She has very little high-level competitive experience, and it's obvious by her poor performances that she's not ready to compete at that level. She should be entering Senior B competitions for the experience and using those events to learn how to compete.

    I think Gracie should admit to herself that she is not ready to compete at the world championships. She needs to find a sports psychologist and do a lot of work on her mental state at competitions. The US cannot afford to send a mentally weak skater to Worlds the season before the Olympics - not with Olympic berths on the line. Christina Gao is a good competitor and has been very consistent all season. She should be given the opportunity to go to Worlds over Gracie. She is much more likely to deliver a respectable performance . Gracie will probably get to Worlds, see she's in a warm up group with a skater like Kim Yuna, and lose focus from being intimidated by the whole experience.
    Last edited by Selene; 02-10-2013 at 05:25 PM.

  6. #96
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    3,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Gracie is not a good competitor. Her problem is that she cannot handle her nerves. The difference between how she skates during practices and how she skates during competitions is shocking. Even the British Eurosport announcer, who runs the rink she trains at, stated that he had never seen her skate as badly as she did at 4CCs and the fact that she was overcome by nerves was written all over her face. She has very little high-level competitive experience, and it's obvious by her poor performances that she's not ready to compete at that level. She should be entering Senior B competitions for the experience and using those events to learn how to compete.

    I think Gracie should admit to herself that she is not ready to compete at the world championships. She needs to find a sports psychologist and do a lot of work on her mental state at competitions. The US cannot afford to send a mentally weak skater to Worlds the season before the Olympics - not with Olympic berths on the line. Christina Gao is a good competitor and has been very consistent all season. She should be given the opportunity to go to Worlds over Gracie. She is much more likely to deliver a respectable performance than Gracie. Gracie will probably get to Worlds, see she's in a warm up group with a skater like Kim Yuna, and lose all focus from being intimidated by the whole experience.
    Aww you don't know that maybe Gracie will skate really well..

  7. #97
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,480
    An aside, but it's funny that this is the same Gold many people were campaigning for to replace Czisny at worlds.

    But in a way I feel for her, because if she doesn't deliver at worlds and we stay with 2 Oly spots, the vultures will be relentless and unforgiving...

  8. #98
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Beyond Neverland
    Posts
    1,089
    Wow US ladies need to be tough skinned. The moment they don't perform... so many snow balls. 2nd time they don't perform... rocket launchers. 3rd time... *shudders*

    Threads like these don't help her with pressures. She is really talented, just support her. She did it at US nationals, she can do it again!

  9. #99
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    292
    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    An aside, but it's funny that this is the same Gold many people were campaigning for to replace Czisny at worlds.

    But in a way I feel for her, because if she doesn't deliver at worlds and we stay with 2 Oly spots, the vultures will be relentless and unforgiving...
    You are right R.D., I had forgotten about the campaign to replace Czisny with Gold last year. But I do remember that Gold was promoted to the World Team trophy last year ahead of some other high placing seniors, apparently to get her experience for competitions such as 4CC this year. It didn't work, at least for 4CC.

  10. #100
    Tripping on the Podium
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    69
    If memory serves, Christina doesn't do particularly well under pressure either. None of the US skaters do. I really don't think it matters who they send this year. Christina hasn't had the weight of expectations on her since the GPF, which she bombed. The risks are about equal. At least with Gracie, the potential upside is much brighter.

  11. #101
    Miserere Nobis
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas Darling
    Posts
    1,477
    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Gracie is not a good competitor. Her problem is that she cannot handle her nerves. The difference between how she skates during practices and how she skates during competitions is shocking. Even the British Eurosport announcer, who runs the rink she trains at, stated that he had never seen her skate as badly as she did at 4CCs and the fact that she was overcome by nerves was written all over her face. She has very little high-level competitive experience, and it's obvious by her poor performances that she's not ready to compete at that level. She should be entering Senior B competitions for the experience and using those events to learn how to compete.

    I think Gracie should admit to herself that she is not ready to compete at the world championships. She needs to find a sports psychologist and do a lot of work on her mental state at competitions. The US cannot afford to send a mentally weak skater to Worlds the season before the Olympics - not with Olympic berths on the line. Christina Gao is a good competitor and has been very consistent all season. She should be given the opportunity to go to Worlds over Gracie. She is much more likely to deliver a respectable performance . Gracie will probably get to Worlds, see she's in a warm up group with a skater like Kim Yuna, and lose focus from being intimidated by the whole experience.
    I said this on a different thread, but Christina Gao hasn't shown much consistency until this season, and her international PCS won't come anywhere close to what the US needs to regain its three spots. It would be different if she could jump like Gracie or one of the Russian girls, but her technical content is nothing special, either. Her programs don't draw the eye--they're lovely and expressive, and she does a good job of interpretation, but next to skaters like Yuna and Mao, who would give her a second glance? At least Gracie can execute the TES needed to raise herself into the Top 10.

    Gracie is working with a sports psychologist--she has been ever since Skate Canada, which is how she pulled herself together in time for the Rostelecom Cup. Neither she nor Ashley have skated their best at their last few competitions, but IMO, the US can't find a better pairing at the moment. The consensus is that Ashley and Gracie can end up with a total of 13th place. With just one season of decent results after several years as a senior, no one knows if Christina--even clean--is capable of finishing in the Top 10, and Ashley's no lock for Top 3. We came close to regaining 3 spots last year, since Ashley finished very high, but the Czisny disaster erased those hopes.

    And the fact of the matter is that, if Christina had wanted to compete at Worlds, she needed to beat Gracie at US Nats. She didn't, and that's why Ashley and Gracie are the Worlds team.

    EDIT: I agree with flutzy--in the event that the US fails to get three spots back, Christina Gao probably would not have made a significant difference.
    Last edited by ForeverFish; 02-10-2013 at 10:52 PM.

  12. #102
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    648
    To paraphrase Elizabeth Bennett, Gracie Gold deserves 'neither such praise nor such censure'.

    She is what she is, a hugely talented skater who nevertheless displays, still, some of the classic weaknesses of youth: inconsistency, a coltish skittishness, and the tendency to be affected by the big moment. Which merely echoes my mildly cautionary attitude toward Kaetlyn Osmond.

    Given the intimidating performances by the veteran Big Three (Yuna, Mao, Carolina) at the tail-end of this season, and while probability is not the same thing as certainty, I am of the view that the time of the Young Turks is not yet now.

    The implication for the thread topic? (that is: can Gracie handle the pressure?)

    Since I'm in a paraphrasing mood, I'll channel Zhou Enlai when asked about the implications of the French Revolution: it's too early to say.

    (And this reply was almost two hundred years after the event. We need to respect Zhou's magnificent aplomb and realize that not-quite-one-full-senior season is insufficient to either beatify or hang a young skater).

  13. #103
    Medalist
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by crazydreamer View Post
    If memory serves, Christina doesn't do particularly well under pressure either. None of the US skaters do. I really don't think it matters who they send this year. Christina hasn't had the weight of expectations on her since the GPF, which she bombed. The risks are about equal. At least with Gracie, the potential upside is much brighter.
    I agree with this. Gao had a downright bad short at TEB, botched a spin in her SP at nationals and 2 lackluster performances at the GPF where she was 6th and finished 19 points behind Tuk who was 5th. She is hardly the picture of consistency who will assure us 3 spots. That said, she absolutely deserved the bronze over Agnes at Nationals when she skated her LP to the best of her ability. Further, she's had several mediocre seasons on the senior circuit and failed to ever get beyond 5th at nationals. Gracie also had an inconsistent nationals but made a true splash and got the attention of more casual fans. I think Gracie fairly beat her for the silver at nationals even if her score was padded a bit and I have no problem with Gracie on the world team. I hope we get 3 spots back but if we don't I won't assume Christina would have been the difference.

  14. #104
    Miserere Nobis
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas Darling
    Posts
    1,477
    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    All we needed was a 9th place finish at last years worlds and that third spot was ours. Ksensia was 9th with a score of around 149.40 . Both Agnes (with not even a particular great skate) and Zhang were WELL of clear of that mark at Four Continents.

    Similarly all we needed was an 8th place finish at worlds the year earlier that one with a mark of a 167 plus would have been harder.

    In both cases a US citizen was there.

    I won't get into 2009 worlds where yes I think Zhang and Flatt could have done it.

    The problem is the US selection procedures. How ridiculous how crazy is it to insist that at the very least you MONITOR your skaters before worlds. Worlds is three months away and injuries things can happen. So how hard would it be to insist legally that people are named provisionally but have to show a form of readiness right before Worlds.

    Rachael Flatt was badly injured and skating badly, if she had been made to show readiness do you think she'd have remained on the team? Alissa showed us right before Worlds and in practice that she could no longer land a single triple jump? Do you think its ridiculous to suggest maybe she didn't belong on said team anymore?

    It was that selection procedure that has doomed us. Any other federation would have monitored their skaters and told them to stay home if they can no longer land a freaking triple jump.
    ITA. I read somewhere else on this forum that, during Alissa's Worlds practice, Ashley was watching in disbelief/exasperation. If one of the other skaters can tell that something is wrong, I have no idea how it slipped by the national governing body of the sport.

  15. #105
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,480
    Quote Originally Posted by flutzy13 View Post
    I hope we get 3 spots back but if we don't I won't assume Christina would have been the difference.
    Basically sums it up for me...

    ITA. I read somewhere else on this forum that, during Alissa's Worlds practice, Ashley was watching in disbelief/exasperation. If one of the other skaters can tell that something is wrong, I have no idea how it slipped by the national governing body of the sport.
    Really? Is there a video (or official article) confirming this? Because when Wagner was asked about that very situation she said she was focusing on herself - saw Czisny crying and assumed they were tears of joy...

Page 7 of 19 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •