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Thread: Can Gracie Gold handle the pressure?

  1. #211
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    James R, I'm sorry your posts were lost. I lost quite a few myself, due to the server move.

    I hope that they will be restored soon.

    Our apologies for losing them.

  2. #212
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    Well James R, I guess I don't see any Sasha hate going on - just alot of people being realistic. Her jump technique was not good and that was often her undoing! And like I said before, when she fell it was like she just sat down on the landing. But I don't think she's by any means the standard by which other US ladies are measured. At least I hope not! Just winning a medal doesn't make you the paragon of the sport! I would still hazard a guess that Michelle is the standard due to the many medals she won. And before you say something about an Olympic medal (and Michelle did have two) one of the greatest skaters of ALL TIME (in my opinion) is Kurt Browning. And he never won a gold medal at the Olympics and was a role model for many to come after him.

    I would tend to agree with you that the Japanese have perhaps a stronger work ethic and maybe a tougher row to hoe. Who knows. Why is Canada generally very strong in mens figure skating and the ladies tend to not be so strong? Alot of ladies with potential who never quite realize it. One of those topics that make you go hmmmmmmmmmm............

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    Well James R, I guess I don't see any Sasha hate going on - just alot of people being realistic.
    It's not at all "realistic" to dismiss Sasha's accomplishments and abilities as a second-rate skater, which a few people above did, saying her old SPs "wouldn't even score 60" and other extremely questionable comparisons. Sasha Cohen won the OSM even with 2 falls under CoP. The reason was the massive quality of her program and her skating. Her medal record is certainly impressive to me, even if it includes a lot of silver. Has any US lady in the last 20 years (other than Kwan obv) even approached Sasha's medal record? No US lady since has won any OMs. Interestingly, Mirai did come "close" to winning Olympic bronze but I dunno how close 12 points off is, really.

    I could be wrong but I don't remember a LOT of instances of her "just sitting down" on the landing. There was the Worlds where she sabotaged herself by going running for a long time the day before the FS. I think her legs collapsed on that one. A lot of the time I remember her failing to rotate to complete the jump or having her skates collide on the landing. Yep, probably a bad technique, which was quite a shame considering what would have been possible if she'd had a good technique. We never really know what goes on behind the scenes and that's what's a bit maddening about seeing great skaters fail. Do they just need a better coach / jump coach, or perhaps a better coach for them? Ashley seems to be doing a lot better under Nicks. What does Gracie Gold need to start landing the jumps she's capable of? Is she really getting the coaching she needs to hack it in Sochi?

    Sasha started doing really well under Tarasova, but quit that partnership really quickly. That may have been her worst mistake, in retrospect.
    Last edited by James R; 02-19-2013 at 09:13 PM.

  4. #214
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    It's been one full Olympic cycle since Sasha, so saying "no US lady has won an Olympic medal since Sasha" makes it seem like the difference between Boitano's OGM and Lysacek's OGM (which was actually 22 years) when it's not, it's 6 seasons right now. The US ladies have this Worlds and a whole season to get it together and potentially make the World and Olympic podium...
    Last edited by mskater93; 02-20-2013 at 02:08 PM.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    The US ladies have this Worlds and a whole season to get it together and potentially make the World and Olympic podium...
    They need to get it together at Worlds this year because skaters have to have a solid reputation to be competitive for high Olympic placements. I think Liz Manley (1988 OSM) was the last woman to have won an Olympic medal without having medalled at a previous World Championship.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by James R View Post
    Sasha Cohen... that could maybe happen again. Someone that has incredible ability, struggles with some things but can win for us "if she's clean." We haven't really seen it quite yet. Alissa almost got there... a lot of girls were hyped but never reached that level. Sasha started in gymnastics and trained a lot of ballet, so now that I think about it that's pretty unique too.
    What incredible ability?
    Sasha was lucky to compete in a weak era. She wouldn't be anywhere near the podium circa 2007-2010, even at her best. Sasha is flexible, so she can do some beautiful spins and spirals (not necessarily earning the most points) but that is the extend of her ability. The rest of her skating is second-tier and third-tier.

  7. #217
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    Worlds 2005
    Sasha Cohen (silver) 214.39

    Worlds 2006
    Sasha Cohen (bronze) 208.88

    Olympics 2010
    Mao Asada (silver) 205.50

    Worlds 2010
    Mao Asada (gold) 197.58

    I have no interest in conversing with you further. If you keep posting obvious lies to slander Sasha unfairly, I'll just start reporting the posts.
    Last edited by James R; 02-20-2013 at 04:52 PM.

  8. #218
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    Actually, if I'm not mistaken - aren't Cohen's scores from 2005 and 2006 Worlds higher because of the QR? So the SP + FS score is actually lower in that case.

    Anyway, we're off on a major tangent, so back to Miss Gold...

  9. #219
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Actually, if I'm not mistaken - aren't Cohen's scores from 2005 and 2006 Worlds higher because of the QR? So the SP + FS score is actually lower in that case.

    Anyway, we're off on a major tangent, so back to Miss Gold...
    Yes you are correct.

    Probably more accurate compare SP and LP only.

    Sasha SP: 66.73 (OLY 2006)
    Sasha SP: 66.62 (Worlds 2006)
    Sasha FS: 116.63 (OLY 2006)
    Sasha FS: 114.67 (Worlds 2006)

    Mao SP: 73.78 (OLY 2010)
    Mao SP: 68.08 (Worlds 2010)
    Mao FS: 131.72 (OLY 2010)
    Mao FS: 129.50 (Worlds 2010)

    Yes we're on a tangent, but I figured I close the loop.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by James R View Post
    Worlds 2005
    Sasha Cohen (silver) 214.39

    Worlds 2006
    Sasha Cohen (bronze) 208.88

    Olympics 2010
    Mao Asada (silver) 205.50

    Worlds 2010
    Mao Asada (gold) 197.58

    I have no interest in conversing with you further. If you keep posting obvious lies to slander Sasha unfairly, I'll just start reporting the posts.
    If you keep posting obvious lies to slander Sasha unfairly, you need help.

  11. #221
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James R View Post
    If [Sasha] hadn't wasted a critical year of training fooling around with acting, and trusted in coaches & trainers instead of trying to do it herself, she certainly would have been in Vancouver duking it out with Yuna. No way she would have won given Yuna's ridiculous ride, but it would have been a great fight and she'd have had a very good chance of medaling, barring age-related injuries like the ones that doomed Kwan's final Olympic attempt.
    I guess it's not unrealistic to imagine that Sasha may have had a good chance at Bronze, but I doubt she would have leapfrogged over Mao (who beat her as well as the eventual OGM in the 2005-2006 season during the GPF) so she could "duke it out with YuNa". While Sasha was a fantastic SP skater, I have no idea how she would compete with clean+3/3 YuNa and clean+3A Mao. And in the FS, both of the younger skaters were capable of monster scores whereas Sasha has always struggled in that segment of the competition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Probably more accurate compare SP and LP only.

    Sasha SP: 66.73 (OLY 2006)
    Sasha SP: 66.62 (Worlds 2006)
    Sasha FS: 116.63 (OLY 2006)
    Sasha FS: 114.67 (Worlds 2006)

    Mao SP: 73.78 (OLY 2010)
    Mao SP: 68.08 (Worlds 2010)
    Mao FS: 131.72 (OLY 2010)
    Mao FS: 129.50 (Worlds 2010)

    Yes we're on a tangent, but I figured I close the loop.
    We also need the combined scores!

    Sasha 183.36 (OLY 2006)
    Sasha 181.29 (Worlds 2006)

    Mao 205.50 (OLY 2010)
    Mao 197.58 (Worlds 2010)

    Quote Originally Posted by James R View Post
    Interestingly, Mirai did come "close" to winning Olympic bronze but I dunno how close 12 points off is, really.
    The difference between Sasha's higher combined score and Mao's lower combined score is 14.22. I don't know how close 14.22 points off is, really.

    Although, I agree that she was not a second-rate skater. She had unique abilities that she did particularly beautifully and which unfortunately do not translate into points under CoP (as someone else pointed out.)

  12. #222
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    This thread is SUPPOSED to be about Gracie Gold.

    Sasha Cohen has retired from figure skating and is currently attending NYU in New York City; she has no intentions of returning to competitive skating.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    This thread is SUPPOSED to be about Gracie Gold.

    Sasha Cohen has retired from figure skating and is currently attending NYU in New York City; she has no intentions of returning to competitive skating.
    True, but 15 pages and how much more is there really to say? She's only been in seniors for not even 1 full season. How much speculation can you have really.

    I posted about Gracie in the 4CC thread but people were more interested in arguing for 40 pages about Mao Asada's rotations. Page after page after page of it ... I wasn't sure if I should post 4CC stuff about Gracie here since they would be spoilers for those who haven't seen 4CC yet.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    This thread is SUPPOSED to be about Gracie Gold.

    Sasha Cohen has retired from figure skating and is currently attending NYU in New York City; she has no intentions of returning to competitive skating.
    ahah))I thought the same thing

  15. #225
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Well, to put the thread on topic...

    For Gracie, what I'm most worried about is her ability to manage her nerves. It's obvious she doesn't have that innate ability a la Michelle, Tara or even Rachael Flatt for a while there. They were able to focus in high pressure situations and deliver strong performances when it mattered.

    When Gracie gets nervous, she goes blank in the face. You can see she's thinking herself through everything. She rushes her take offs which leads to falls and doubles. If she is to be the next star in the US, she's going to have to learn to manage those nerves. With her abilities, people will be looking at her as a medal threat if not gold medal favorite; she has to learn to deal with the pressure...assuming she can. It's not a skill everyone can master. If she can't get a grip on her nerves she will be relegated to headcase status and that would be unfortunate. So many of our immensely talented skaters bear this stigma.

    Gracie has time (of course) but I'm less concerned with what she can do in the next four years of her skating; I'm looking more at the next few weeks.
    Last edited by kwanatic; 02-21-2013 at 09:59 AM.

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