Can Gracie Gold handle the pressure? | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Can Gracie Gold handle the pressure?

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
I don't know about "looking down on." To me, it's a question of the tail wagging the dog. The USFSA has over 100,000 dues-paying members. Of these, perhaps one one-hundredth of one per cent will ever legitimately aspire to skate in the ISU World Championships.

in discussions of this sort we try to convince ourselves that it is very important to get three U.S. ladies' spots for the world championships. Is it? The difference between two and three spots will briefly affect the life of precisely one person in the country (population 300,000,000) -- three, if you count that person's parents.

I am often accused of having no patriotism (and for that matter, no school spirit ;) ). I have to admit that if Julia Lipnitskaya wins the Olympics next year I will say "good for her!" and I will not slit my wrists because she is not American.

It is, indeed, hard for me to convince myself that "how you skate at major international competitions" is something that "really matters at the end of the day." In truth it matters hardly at all. (JMO.)

These are some very good points. I think people forget also that out of all the people who compete at Nationals, only a very small percentage gets byes. The rest go through a qualification season. There is no do-over, oh, well you had a great regionals, oh you did great at nationals year, we'll let you in. If you don't make the top four at Easterns, Midwesterns or Pacifics, you are out. No question.

So it doesn't seem to be that much of a departure for USFSA to say, we'll chose the top two or three skaters by Naitonals and allow for a few exceptions.

I do find this Monday morning quarterbacking quite hilarious.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
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May 19, 2011
To be honest, I still think Wagner/Gold is the best shot at the world team right now but I don't know that Gracie is ready...hell, how is Ashley doing at this point? No one knows.

The only thing 4CC showed is that Christina had two solid skates and that Gracie and Agnes struggled. Does that mean Gracie will struggle at worlds? Not necessarily, but judging by her track record so far this season, I wouldn't expect any miracles from her. She's had two brilliant skates (SP at COR and FS at nationals), a few mediocre skates and a couple of disasters. Gracie is nowhere near consistent enough to bet the farm on at this point...

Gracie's hype is based solely on her potential. Everyone sees her soaring jumps from the practice videos so we all know she's capable of doing the jumps. Nailing the jumps under pressure is what she hasn't done yet. Yes, there was pressure at nationals but skating from 9th place is nowhere near as stressful as skating from 1st, 2nd or 3rd...so even after the clinic she put on at nationals I wasn't convinced she'd turned the corner. 4CC was proof of that. From all indications she's still not ready.

As for Christina, I think she should be proud of what she's done this year. She's had the best international season of her career and she has things to build on for next season. I do think she was the victim of biased scoring at nationals; her mistakes in her programs were nowhere near as bad as Agnes' and her presentation/artistry/etc. are better than Hicks'....she should have placed 3rd at nationals. But...bygones. The USFSA knew who they wanted to go to worlds and who they wanted for the alternate and they adjusted the results as such. The result: Christina got screwed. Her strong skates and 4th place finish at 4CC is all the vindication she needs.

Agnes has assumed Rachael's position with the USFSA. They love her big jumps and push her despite the fact the international judges' are less than impressed. But at least Rachael put out good performances internationally to help justify the USFSA's touting of her as the go-to skater...sorry to be frank, but Agnes sucks internationally. Something tells me Agnes will get dumped next year when one of the younger girls moves up.

The focus is on Gracie now. The commentators during nationals said she Gracie claims to love the attention she gets...I wonder if she still feels that way? If she doesn't deliver at worlds she will be crucified. It doesn't matter that she's inexperienced or whatever...fans will make excuses for her but what it boils down to is people want results and if she doesn't deliver, she will a punching bag from April until October. Look at Alissa last year...Rachael the year before that. The pressure is on and I'm sure she's feeling it.

For her sake, I hope she can get her act together in this next month...
 

Puchi

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 26, 2010
I would be pretty concerned had Gracie skated lights out at 4CC. It's a learning curve and she has more to gain by faltering now than peaking too early. Now both Gracie and Wagner are going to be HUNGRY by Worlds time.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I would be pretty concerned had Gracie skated lights out at 4CC. It's a learning curve and she has more to gain by faltering now than peaking too early. Now both Gracie and Wagner are going to be HUNGRY by Worlds time.

This. Why peak at 4CC?
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
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Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Gracie didn't skate all that bad at 4CC, but I sensed that she was pretty mad at herself after the FS. I agree she should do better at Worlds.
 

Skater Boy

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Feb 24, 2012
Gracie is doing just fine; ready to peak when it counts. She is gaining experience in competition, mileage on her programs and h andling the pressure. She is healthy and all is good.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I would be pretty concerned had Gracie skated lights out at 4CC. It's a learning curve and she has more to gain by faltering now than peaking too early. Now both Gracie and Wagner are going to be HUNGRY by Worlds time.

That's the "glass half full" way of looking at it...

I'm still doubtful (can't ignore the stats staring me right in the face - 1 for 4, etc.), but I agree with not wanting to peak too soon (at 4CCs). See, it kinda happened to Wagner last year...and let's see how the top international crop fare at Worlds as well.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Except for the fact that Christina has out-skated Gracie in every international competition, and was arguably held down at Nationals. I think it's a bit late to replace Gracie with Christina, and I'm not sure it would do wonders for Gracie's confidence or her ability to deal with nerves, so I'm not sure whether a replacement should occur (even though I personally prefer Christina's skating).

That said, I do think that there was some USFS favouritism going on, and I know I'm not alone in wondering whether the US selection system needs to be modified slightly.

They've only been at one international competition together, which was 4CC. I assume you're referencing the GP circuit, where Christina finished 2nd at SA and 4th at TEB, but even there, Gracie's CoR score (on a sloppy FS) was higher than both of Christina's.

You can't base an argument on one data point, especially when the bulk of the evidence is pointing in the other direction.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
The Worlds haven't happened yet. ;)

They should send Wagner and the highest placed skater from 4CC which is Gao, IMO.

With Wagner and Gold, the chances of three Olympic spots are almost none.

I don't understand this logic. You have a skater, Gracie Gold, who performed brilliantly on the junior circuit and has struggled in her first year as a senior. Then you have another skater, Christina Gao, who has almost no results to show from her past two seasons as a senior (or 3, if you count that she competed in the senior division at US Nationals), was beaten by Gracie and the Russian darlings at Junior Worlds, and is just now getting on her feet.

The significance of the difference lies in what Gracie can accomplish. Christina at her best couldn't touch what Gracie did in the FS at Nationals.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Or look at it this way.

Gao must be almost FLAWLESS to be in the mix. If Gao has an off day she's out of the top 10 - EASILY. To use someone else's analogy, yes, it's much like the "backup quarterback" situation (except she isn't the backup- Zawadzki is! *shudder*) where in most cases, the backup QB on average will not be all that much of an improvement (if any) over a rough performance from the starter.

But Gold can afford a few mistakes and still generally stay in the hunt (she must be careful not to melt down, though- 4CC was dangerously close and it happened at SC).
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Since it was my quote, I probably need to back it up :p The practice I attended was the day between the short and the long. Czisny buried herself in the short program so the "3 spots thing" was already pretty much out of the question after the short. The way Czisny was practicing: very bumpy practices, landing some jumps but none as soon as the music came on. Ashley was sitting too far away from me to really judge her facial expressions, plus, there's no way of knowing what went on in her head and I might have been projecting, but she seemd definitely a little sad watching her teammate struggle like that. Also: she didn't watch very long, she had her own practice to prepare for.

R.D. is right in saying that Wagner's official statement was that she focused on herself and had no idea Czisny had skated that badly. It's probably a good thing nobody told her before she had to perform that in case she didn't land in the top 10, the US would be down to 1 spot :p

But basically I'm not surprised there have been no bold statements like Ashley's last year "I'm going to get those 3 spots back". Lesson learned: *both* have to do well and you have no control over the fate of your teammate.

Thanks for clarifying! Poor Ashley. She literally got to watch the 3-spot hope slip from their grasp.
 

Icey

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Nov 28, 2012
Christina at her best couldn't touch what Gracie did in the FS at Nationals.

That may be, but Christina's isu personal best scores in all categories (combined, short program, and long program) are slightly higher than Gracie's.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Well, of course Wagner wasn't going to get the 3 spots on her own...arguably she did her part, Czisny was MORE than capable of placing 9th...

She even hashtagged "3spots" on Twitter when she said she was looking to Worlds...so obviously it's on her mind (again)...she just has to focus on what she has to do and not worry about what's out of her control (Gold's skating).
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
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Jun 16, 2010
An injured Czisny who couldnt even jump was not capable of coming 9th at Worlds. Knowing she was much too injured to realistically compete she should have graciously withdrew and let either Zawadzki or Zhang take her place. Just as an injured Flatt should have graciously withdrew and let Nagasu compete in 2011, especialy as Nagasu was very likely to place better than even a healthy Flatt would have, let alone an injured one. If that happens a 3rd time then the USFSA has to start monitoring their skaters right before Worlds to ensure their readiness and immediately yank anyone from the team who shows any signs of physical diress or general unreadiness for the event.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
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Aug 21, 2012
That may be, but Christina's isu personal best scores in all categories (combined, short program, and long program) are slightly higher than Gracie's.

Slightly higher, not significantly higher. You must also consider that Gracie has been on the senior circuit for less than a full season and is already coming within a very realistic reach of Christina's PB.

R.D. said it best -- Gracie can still edge into the Top 10 with a few falters, but Christina must be nearly perfect. Sending Christina, who gets neither high PCS nor high TES internationally, would be a mistake.
 

bekalc

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Joined
Nov 1, 2006
Well, of course Wagner wasn't going to get the 3 spots on her own...arguably she did her part, Czisny was MORE than capable of placing 9th...

She even hashtagged "3spots" on Twitter when she said she was looking to Worlds...so obviously it's on her mind (again)...she just has to focus on what she has to do and not worry about what's out of her control (Gold's skating).

Alissa was skating terribly. She went to the Challenge Cup and couldn't land a single jump. Practices weren't go well either. She should have bowed out due to injury or whatever it was .. Instead of my place, my place...Same with Flatt the year before.
 

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
This years Worlds will be one of the toughest ladies Worlds in years. If we assume Kim, Asada, and Kostner are the podium in some order after that you have Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva, Wagner, Osmond, Gold, Korpi, Suzuki, and Murakami all fighting for spots 4th to 11th. One of those skaters who could possibly finish top 5 or even win a medal if Asada or Kostner bombs, will finish right out of the top 10, atleast 1. Is there anyone I am forgetting worth note?

Wagner and Gold could regain 3 spots but both will have to have a good competition. Or if one has a somewhat bad competition they have to hope they can survive for an 8th or 9th place and the other comes atleast 4th or 5th.
 

FlattFan

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Jan 4, 2010
Alissa was skating terribly. She went to the Challenge Cup and couldn't land a single jump. Practices weren't go well either. She should have bowed out due to injury or whatever it was .. Instead of my place, my place...Same with Flatt the year before.

Why is it same with Flatt? Flatt did pretty well at 4CC, a month before World. She scored 180+ there.
 

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
Why is it same with Flatt? Flatt did pretty well at 4CC, a month before World. She scored 180+ there.

By Worlds she was clearly injured though, and it was confirmed she had skated with a serious injury at Worlds after the event. At 4CCs she wasnt that injured yet. Despite doing well, Nagasu also still crushed Flatt at 4CCs.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
This years Worlds will be one of the toughest ladies Worlds in years. If we assume Kim, Asada, and Kostner are the podium in some order after that you have Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva, Wagner, Osmond, Gold, Korpi, Suzuki, and Murakami all fighting for spots 4th to 11th. One of those skaters who could possibly finish top 5 or even win a medal if Asada or Kostner bombs, will finish right out of the top 10, atleast 1. Is there anyone I am forgetting worth note?

Wagner and Gold could regain 3 spots but both will have to have a good competition. Or if one has a somewhat bad competition they have to hope they can survive for an 8th or 9th place and the other comes atleast 4th or 5th.

I would only guarantee Kim a spot on the podium based on her amazing consistency and international cred--Asada faltered badly at last year's Worlds and Kostner has yet to show that she can defend her title. That cracks open the door for Wagner and Suzuki, both of whom are stunning when on. Of course, Wagner will need a 3-3 or 2A-3T to hope for a shot at the podium.

Both Tuktamysheva and Sotnikova have struggled with various issues this season, and though their performances at Euros were commendable, they (especially Sotnikova) still have much to prove in terms of consistency. Murakami's chronic UR-ing will be a problem if she hopes to finish in the top 5. Korpi doesn't seem to get the recognition she deserves from international judges, perhaps because all of her programs revolve around the same premise--a pretty girl doing pretty spins in pretty dresses. That leaves Osmond and Gold, both of whom have shown serious consistency problems. Someone was suggesting that Osmond will get a score inflation due to Worlds being held in her home country, but I doubt it. The pressure is really on for her to singlehandedly regain Canada's two spots.
 
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