Can Gracie Gold handle the pressure? | Page 12 | Golden Skate

Can Gracie Gold handle the pressure?

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
If [Sasha] hadn't wasted a critical year of training fooling around with acting, and trusted in coaches & trainers instead of trying to do it herself, she certainly would have been in Vancouver duking it out with Yuna. No way she would have won given Yuna's ridiculous ride, but it would have been a great fight and she'd have had a very good chance of medaling, barring age-related injuries like the ones that doomed Kwan's final Olympic attempt.
I guess it's not unrealistic to imagine that Sasha may have had a good chance at Bronze, but I doubt she would have leapfrogged over Mao (who beat her as well as the eventual OGM in the 2005-2006 season during the GPF) so she could "duke it out with YuNa". While Sasha was a fantastic SP skater, I have no idea how she would compete with clean+3/3 YuNa and clean+3A Mao. And in the FS, both of the younger skaters were capable of monster scores whereas Sasha has always struggled in that segment of the competition.

Probably more accurate compare SP and LP only.

Sasha SP: 66.73 (OLY 2006)
Sasha SP: 66.62 (Worlds 2006)
Sasha FS: 116.63 (OLY 2006)
Sasha FS: 114.67 (Worlds 2006)

Mao SP: 73.78 (OLY 2010)
Mao SP: 68.08 (Worlds 2010)
Mao FS: 131.72 (OLY 2010)
Mao FS: 129.50 (Worlds 2010)

Yes we're on a tangent, but I figured I close the loop.
We also need the combined scores!

Sasha 183.36 (OLY 2006)
Sasha 181.29 (Worlds 2006)

Mao 205.50 (OLY 2010)
Mao 197.58 (Worlds 2010)

Interestingly, Mirai did come "close" to winning Olympic bronze but I dunno how close 12 points off is, really.
The difference between Sasha's higher combined score and Mao's lower combined score is 14.22. I don't know how close 14.22 points off is, really. :laugh:

Although, I agree that she was not a second-rate skater. She had unique abilities that she did particularly beautifully and which unfortunately do not translate into points under CoP (as someone else pointed out.)
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
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This thread is SUPPOSED to be about Gracie Gold.

Sasha Cohen has retired from figure skating and is currently attending NYU in New York City; she has no intentions of returning to competitive skating.
 

James R

Match Penalty
Joined
Oct 26, 2009
This thread is SUPPOSED to be about Gracie Gold.

Sasha Cohen has retired from figure skating and is currently attending NYU in New York City; she has no intentions of returning to competitive skating.

True, but 15 pages and how much more is there really to say? She's only been in seniors for not even 1 full season. How much speculation can you have really.

I posted about Gracie in the 4CC thread but people were more interested in arguing for 40 pages about Mao Asada's rotations. Page after page after page of it ... I wasn't sure if I should post 4CC stuff about Gracie here since they would be spoilers for those who haven't seen 4CC yet.
 

koatcue

Medalist
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Country
Russia
This thread is SUPPOSED to be about Gracie Gold.

Sasha Cohen has retired from figure skating and is currently attending NYU in New York City; she has no intentions of returning to competitive skating.

ahah))I thought the same thing:)
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
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May 19, 2011
Well, to put the thread on topic...

For Gracie, what I'm most worried about is her ability to manage her nerves. It's obvious she doesn't have that innate ability a la Michelle, Tara or even Rachael Flatt for a while there. They were able to focus in high pressure situations and deliver strong performances when it mattered.

When Gracie gets nervous, she goes blank in the face. You can see she's thinking herself through everything. She rushes her take offs which leads to falls and doubles. If she is to be the next star in the US, she's going to have to learn to manage those nerves. With her abilities, people will be looking at her as a medal threat if not gold medal favorite; she has to learn to deal with the pressure...assuming she can. It's not a skill everyone can master. If she can't get a grip on her nerves she will be relegated to headcase status and that would be unfortunate. So many of our immensely talented skaters bear this stigma.

Gracie has time (of course) but I'm less concerned with what she can do in the next four years of her skating; I'm looking more at the next few weeks.
 
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clairecloutier

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
For Gracie, what I'm most worried about is her ability to manage her nerves. It's obvious she doesn't have that innate ability a la Michelle, Tara or even Rachael Flatt for a while there. They were able to focus in high pressure situations and deliver strong performances when it mattered.

When Gracie gets nervous, she goes blank in the face. You can almost see her thinking herself through everything. She rushes her take offs which leads to falls and doubles. She is going to have to learn to manage those nerves...assuming she can. It's not a skill everyone can master.


This is exactly what worries me about Gracie. Everyone is saying she has time, she'll learn how to compete. But as you point out, Kwanatic, the fact is not everyone can or does learn this skill. I mean, when you think about great champions--Kim, Asada, Kwan, Yamaguchi, Lipinski, Witt, Yagudin, Plushenko, Stojko--was there ever a time when those champions DIDN'T know how to compete? Was there ever a time when they were routinely crumbling under pressure and falling apart in their programs? Yeah, it happened to all of them once in a while (Kwan 1997 Nationals, Kim 2009 Skate America). But those times were the exception, not the rule. You look at those skaters, and nearly all of them were winning national/world medals very, very early in their careers.

Of course, there are exceptions to this. Carolina Kostner, Akiko Suzuki, Ashley Wagner. These are skaters who really only learned to compete in their 20s. But again, they are exceptions. In many cases, it seems like great champions are just born knowing how to compete--that's part of what makes them great. And I don't know if Gracie has that quality or not.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
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There certainly was a time when Tara Lipinski & Elizabeth Manley, not to mention Joannie Rochette, didn't know how to compete. It is a skill that some possess always (Michelle), some can learn Liz Manley), and some never can learn (Rohene Ward :cry: ).

(Tara was supposed to cream everyone in US Juniors in 1995, had a disastrous competition, and lost to Sydney Vogel of Alaska.)
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
(Tara was supposed to cream everyone in US Juniors in 1995, had a disastrous competition, and lost to Sydney Vogel of Alaska.)

I would not say that Tara had a disastrous competition.

I think Sydne won because she had bigger and cleaner jumps including a triple lutz, which Tara did not have yet. (Or ever if you're a purist about takeoff edges ;) )
 

dorispulaski

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I was there in Providence. Tara looked really, really bad; memorably so, over a span of 18 years ago, still shockingly bad.

Of course, there had been such a hype, even in the Providence papers, about her, that we expected a lot (the impression was left that Tara was going to be a better skater than the seniors); but even with some significant overscoring, she still couldn't win juniors..

It's true that Vogel had some great performances. But if Brittney McConn hadn't had a few .problems, Tara could easily have been lower than second.
 

Olderbear

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Doris: I remember Sydne Vogel....I thought she was going to be the next Big Thing, but then she just disappeared....whatever happened to her?
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
She couldn't make the American team and I believe her family was blessed financially so she skated for I believe Germany but never made it out of there and for some reason her skating stopped growing and she had trouble with her jumps. Sad. I hope she is happy wherever she is.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Again, isn't this thread about Gracie Gold?

Of course, we have the four words that should strike fear in every US fan hoping for that 3rd spot back: Gracie Gold Short Program.

She is 1 for 4 (FOUR) in that segment. 25% shot.

I think that's all that needs to be said, really.
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Again, isn't this thread about Gracie Gold?

Of course, we have the four words that should strike fear in every US fan hoping for that 3rd spot back: Gracie Gold Short Program.

She is 1 for 4 (FOUR) in that segment. 25% shot.

I think that's all that needs to be said, really.

1 for 4? Eh, I guess if you're insisting on clean programs then yes. But she did OK at 4CC -- she still got 60+ there and did her 3-3 there. I think it's more practical to say she's 50 percent as far as getting a decent SP.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Actually you are right. I was thinking about the freeskate. 1 for 2 would be more appropriate- but still, that's flipping a coin- probably a weighted one considering it's Worlds...hardly any assurance.
 

gold12345

Medalist
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Well, to put the thread on topic...

For Gracie, what I'm most worried about is her ability to manage her nerves. It's obvious she doesn't have that innate ability a la Michelle, Tara or even Rachael Flatt for a while there. They were able to focus in high pressure situations and deliver strong performances when it mattered.

When Gracie gets nervous, she goes blank in the face. You can see she's thinking herself through everything. She rushes her take offs which leads to falls and doubles. If she is to be the next star in the US, she's going to have to learn to manage those nerves. With her abilities, people will be looking at her as a medal threat if not gold medal favorite; she has to learn to deal with the pressure...assuming she can. It's not a skill everyone can master. If she can't get a grip on her nerves she will be relegated to headcase status and that would be unfortunate. So many of our immensely talented skaters bear this stigma.

Gracie has time (of course) but I'm less concerned with what she can do in the next four years of her skating; I'm looking more at the next few weeks.

Exactly. Right now Gracie skates with a "deer in the headlights" look on her face instead of a confident look. Nothing comes naturally (despite being a natural jumper), she is always thinking. We just don't know what we'll get from her at this point in time. Maybe she'll grow out of it as she matures and gets more comfortable as a Sr lady, but all we know for sure is where she is right now. What will happen to Gracie at Worlds seems to be rather unpredictable.
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Actually you are right. I was thinking about the freeskate. 1 for 2 would be more appropriate- but still, that's flipping a coin- probably a weighted one considering it's Worlds...hardly any assurance.

No of course not. But as I always say regarding life --- sometimes it takes only one good performance. So.....my hope is that she makes the most of it at Worlds.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
There certainly was a time when Tara Lipinski & Elizabeth Manley, not to mention Joannie Rochette, didn't know how to compete. It is a skill that some possess always (Michelle), some can learn Liz Manley), and some never can learn (Rohene Ward :cry: ).

(Tara was supposed to cream everyone in US Juniors in 1995, had a disastrous competition, and lost to Sydney Vogel of Alaska.)
Kwan was supposed to win Juniors the year before Lipinski (or 2 years, maybe) but also ended up either second or third. Frank C wanted her to stay in Juniors another year to win but that was the summer she took her Senior FS test without his consent while he was out of town, so she also didn't ALWAYS know how to compete. And didn't she lose the title in 1995 when she came in as the favorite to Nicole Bobek because she made mistakes? She learned very quickly from there, though....
 

Jammers

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There certainly was a time when Tara Lipinski & Elizabeth Manley, not to mention Joannie Rochette, didn't know how to compete. It is a skill that some possess always (Michelle), some can learn Liz Manley), and some never can learn (Rohene Ward :cry: ).

(Tara was supposed to cream everyone in US Juniors in 1995, had a disastrous competition, and lost to Sydney Vogel of Alaska.)

Seriously having to go back to when Tara was 12 to say she didn't know how to compete it s bit of a stretch. Tara was just one tough skater who wasn't intimidated even when she was skating against the most clearly dominate skater of her time. She had nerves of steel which many skaters just don't have.
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Seriously having to go back to when Tara was 12 to say she didn't know how to compete it s bit of a stretch. Tara was just one tough skater who wasn't intimidated even when she was skating against the most clearly dominate skater of her time. She had nerves of steel which many skaters just don't have.
LOL, I totally agree.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
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The point is that she learned how to compete quickly; that's all I was trying to say.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_Lipinski#Eligible

She was 4th at Jr. Worlds in 1995, 5th at Jr. Worlds in 1996, 15th at Senior Worlds. She had not quite got the hang of this competing thing in her debut year on the Senior Circuit.

The 1996-1997 season, she figured it out and never looked back.

She was, indeed, one tough cookie, but it didn't mean she won everything she entered. And strange, but true, she never medalled at Jr. Worlds in 2 tries.
 
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