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Thread: Should the ISU carry out an Inquiry into the outcome of the Ladies FS at Skate Canada

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    Its not corruption that needs examination, but skate order. COP was supposed to be free from being influenced by skate order. However, as we've een with many champions phips, skate order stillplays a role.
    I don't think skate order will ever not play a role in the scoring. Even if someone is judging as fairly and unbiasedly as they possibly can, it's a matter of how the mind works.

  2. #47
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    Only generically, but not positively.

  3. #48
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    Oh, goodness, I find the headline of this thread ridiculous and off-putting. You can have a debate about the results, but shouldn't it be something along the lines of, "Who do you think deserved to win the ladies competition at Skate Canada?" Instead, the headline assumes that something so egregiously wrong happened that the debate it wants to start is not whether the result that happened was wrong or right, but whether it was so wrong that there needs to be an inquiry. Pfftt.

  4. #49
    Meanwhile in a parallel universe .... theresa's Avatar
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    I dont know if the ISU should go as far as carry out an inquiry since that seems a little extreme IMO. I am sure that the judges' agenda was to not purposely put Osmond in first place. Of course since Osmond is a Canadian skater skating in her home country, it is natural that she will have a slight boost in her PCS ... I just hope that this competition opens the eyes of all the judges and hopefully they will start awarding Suzuki with the PCS that she TRULY deserves in later competitions.

  5. #50
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    Elizaveta plainly didn't have the same energy that she displayed last year--she looked exhausted before the short program was halfway done, and Mishin has said that she's been struggling with stress brought on by puberty, as well as back and leg issues.

    I don't think that a formal inquiry is needed because 1) it's a bit extreme for a Grand Prix event and 2) those who should have medalled, did. The only question is that of the order of the top three, and here I agree with OP that politics definitely played into Osmond's win, however slightly. News articles leading up to Skate Canada repeatedly stressed the need for the Canadians to perform well, and there is no such thing as unbiased judging. We saw the same thing in Skate America when Ashley won--she deserved the gold medal, but not the 127+ free skate score. Suzuki surpasses Osmond from every possible angle, and even with her flubs in the short program Friday, she skated well enough to win.

  6. #51
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    Last year, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva went into the GP with a two wins in the 2010-2011 JGP, a silver JGPF medal and a 2011 JW silver medal.

    Kaetlyn Osmond came into the GP with no credentials other than a Nebelhorn win over a very weak field. She never did better than top 10 in the JGP and was 10th at JW 2012.


    Compare their SP scores:
    59.57 33.95 25.62 6.46 5.96 6.68 6.43 6.50 Tuktamysheva, 2011
    60.56 33.21 27.35 6.68 6.61 6.96 6.86 7.07 Osmond, 2012

    I knew when Osmond scored that high as the first skater, she was destined for the podium no matter how other skaters performed.

    I agree that Suzuki should have won the competition. Kaetlyn gave two good performances, but she doesn't have Suzuki's speed and personality on the ice. Kaetlyn's PCS scores in the FS were hugely inflated and Akiko's were held down. That's how the win was eked out for Kaetlyn.

    I believe the judges are overly influenced by the reaction of the crowd. Canadian audiences invariably give riotous standing ovations for all the Canadian competitors while giving the non-Canadians polite applause. Did anyone else notice that when Ralph/Hill were placed last in the SD, the audience booed the marks?

    I'm afraid Worlds 2013 will turn out to be a coronation ceremony for Canadian skaters whether is is the fair result or not.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post

    Compare their SP scores:
    59.57 33.95 25.62 6.46 5.96 6.68 6.43 6.50 Tuktamysheva, 2011
    60.56 33.21 27.35 6.68 6.61 6.96 6.86 7.07 Osmond, 2012
    Agreed. No matter how impressive Osmond's short program was, you can't argue that it deserved any better of a score than Tuktamysheva's 2011 program to Adios Nonino, which--IMO--was on an entirely different level in terms of interpretation and technique.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Canadian audiences invariably give riotous standing ovations for all the Canadian competitors while giving the non-Canadians polite applause.
    You obviously missed the enthusiastic standing ovation for Javier Fernandez in the LP — for winning over Chan, no less.

    I've been to a number of international competitions in Canada and I can tell you that this is utter nonsense. Yes, Canadian audiences are enthusiastic for all of the Canadian skaters, whether they are contenders or not. But they are also very enthusiastic for great performances for non-Canadian skaters — everyone from Takahashi to Plushenko.

  9. #54
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    I was watching the competition on UniversalSports TV, and a comment was made that the audience was none too happy over the outcome of the Men's FS. Yes, they applauded, but it wasn't anywhere near the deafening roar that Chan would have received if he had won.

    What was noticeable in every warmup group was the Canadian skaters got huge cheers and it was almost embarrassing that most of the other skaters in the group hardly got any reaction when their names were announced.

    I've been to competitions, too. I've been in the unfortunate position more than once to sit in front of a group of Canadians who cheered and whistled deafeningly for every single Canadian skater, good or bad, but showed little or no interest in the other skaters. Maybe every non-Canadian skater is not a Takahashi or a Plushenko, but that doesn't mean they should be ignored. In no way is it justifiable to stand up and roar for a Liam Firus but sit on one's hands for a Ross Miner.

  10. #55
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    funny most skaters in their books/interviews/etc offer up that Canada is one of the best places they've ever skated - no matter where that skater was from.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I was watching the competition on UniversalSports TV, and a comment was made that the audience was none too happy over the outcome of the Men's FS. Yes, they applauded, but it wasn't anywhere near the deafening roar that Chan would have received if he had won.

    What was noticeable in every warmup group was the Canadian skaters got huge cheers and it was almost embarrassing that most of the other skaters in the group hardly got any reaction when their names were announced.

    I've been to competitions, too. I've been in the unfortunate position more than once to sit in front of a group of Canadians who cheered and whistled deafeningly for every single Canadian skater, good or bad, but showed little or no interest in the other skaters. Maybe every non-Canadian skater is not a Takahashi or a Plushenko, but that doesn't mean they should be ignored. In no way is it justifiable to stand up and roar for a Liam Firus but sit on one's hands for a Ross Miner.

    Are you actually trying to argue to Fernandez did not get a standing ovation? Because he did. And that's just fact.

    Also, I see absolutely nothing wrong with Canadians being enthusiastic about Canadian skaters. I think it would be sad if they weren't. Plus, I hardly think that one nationality — Canadians — have the market cornered on being enthusiastic for their skaters when skating in their own country.

    I think it worth noting that any number of international skaters have gone on record in the past talking about how much they enjoy skating for the knowledgeable and enthusiastic Canadian crowd.

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    I've been to lots of competitions. Most people root for their own country's skaters, sure, but they don't ignore the other skaters, even if they aren't the most famous and highly rated. According to you, you'd cheer for a Takahashi or a Plushenko, but not for lesser skaters --- if they weren't Canadian.

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    If anyone should have scored higher it was Murakami. I saw all programs on big screen tv and noticed that Akiko had a lovely year last year but I felt the program doesnt suit her and she fades into it. Murakami on the other hand lacks Akiko's elegance and refinement but she has a more complete program and delivered well.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    funny most skaters in their books/interviews/etc offer up that Canada is one of the best places they've ever skated - no matter where that skater was from.
    Yeah, I remembered Alexei Yagudin said that he loved to skate in Canada the most. So he chose to have his Farewell Skate and Speech at 2003 Skate Canada.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I've been to lots of competitions. Most people root for their own country's skaters, sure, but they don't ignore the other skaters, even if they aren't the most famous and highly rated. According to you, you'd cheer for a Takahashi or a Plushenko, but not for lesser skaters --- if they weren't Canadian.

    Don't try to twist my words. I never, ever said I don't cheer for "lesser skaters" (your words, not mine). Nor do I accept as fact that general Canadian audiences ignore skaters — that's entirely false. I think if you look back and actually read my post you will notice that I just used Takahashi and Plushenko as examples of international skaters who I've seen get a warm reception from a Canadian audience. I could as well have said Suguri, or Tugba Karademir or Zhang & Zhang... (insert skater's name here).

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