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Thread: Should the ISU carry out an Inquiry into the outcome of the Ladies FS at Skate Canada

  1. #61
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    Murakami's skating looks good on the surface, but looks can be deceiving. She has an ugly flutz and a UR problem: in the SP, she got a UR and a downgrade, and 3 URs in the FS. She gets good PCS scores, but that can't make up for the deficient TES.

  2. #62
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    I like Tuktamysheva, I think she should be scored better than japanese skaters

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Yeah, I remembered Alexei Yagudin said that he loved to skate in Canada the most. So he chose to have his Farewell Skate and Speech at 2003 Skate Canada.
    Scott Hamilton's book also has him saying that until he was *SCOTT HAMILTON* he got a better reception in Canada than he did in the USA (or anywhere else for that matter). Katia wrote about Canada in her book being very *loud* and *excited* for skaters.

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    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Murakami's skating looks good on the surface, but looks can be deceiving. She has an ugly flutz and a UR problem: in the SP, she got a UR and a downgrade, and 3 URs in the FS. She gets good PCS scores, but that can't make up for the deficient TES.
    The UR calls Murakami receives are insanely wrong. She deserved one < in the SP and one < in the LP (on the last jump of each of those programs) and that was it. Her PCS in the LP also should have been the highest of the event from my perspective: the choreography flowed and carried an entire idea better than any other and was also the most complex. She won 2012 Skate Canada as far as I am concerned.

    I agree with the first post of this thread that Osmond should have been 4th in LP and 3rd overall.
    Last edited by Blades of Passion; 10-28-2012 at 01:55 AM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    a) It's the biggest skating federation in the world (according to it's own website).

    b) The key designer of COP was Canadian, though the idea was kicking around after the wierdness of Euros 1997.

    c) Skate Canada tends to be present at a lot of events to boost their skaters with the judges (this has been noted by both those "on the other side" and those who's bias is perhaps less vehement)

    d) The new powerhouses with money (the Japanese, Chinese and Korean federations) are still NEW in the grand scheme of things.
    You forgot the main point- David Dore. That answers well to the question about international judges.

    What I don't understand in this SC politiking is their stupidity. What exactly do they want to accomplish? The audience is none, arenas are empty, popularity of the sport is below zero. I wouldn't care if it were a domestic Canadian problem. But the problem is it pays negatively on the sport entirely. Japan, China, Korea, even Russia, without ISU support, won't be able to save this sport. Therefore I don't see any grand positive changes in the future, not until Dore retires. He can take his boss with him on his way out.

  6. #66
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    I find all of this discussion disheartening to say the least. Goldenskate used to be a forum where the merits of the skating were discussed politely and, at times, different posters agreed to disagree. During the last few years this has changed and there is now blatant dislike of skaters with rude and snide comments regarding their appearance, nationality etc.
    Would I have had the results a little different? Yes, but I am not about to declare a conspiracy against Suzuki. Especially given that the panel was an international panel.
    The treatment of Patrick Chan has also been disgusting at times on this forum. The sarcastic remarks etc. do nothing to help us have proper discussions about our sport.

  7. #67
    Simply the best. l'etoile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jan View Post
    I find all of this discussion disheartening to say the least. Goldenskate used to be a forum where the merits of the skating were discussed politely and, at times, different posters agreed to disagree. During the last few years this has changed and there is now blatant dislike of skaters with rude and snide comments regarding their appearance, nationality etc.
    Would I have had the results a little different? Yes, but I am not about to declare a conspiracy against Suzuki. Especially given that the panel was an international panel.
    The treatment of Patrick Chan has also been disgusting at times on this forum. The sarcastic remarks etc. do nothing to help us have proper discussions about our sport.
    Extremely well said.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by jan View Post
    I find all of this discussion disheartening to say the least. Goldenskate used to be a forum where the merits of the skating were discussed politely and, at times, different posters agreed to disagree. During the last few years this has changed and there is now blatant dislike of skaters with rude and snide comments regarding their appearance, nationality etc.
    Would I have had the results a little different? Yes, but I am not about to declare a conspiracy against Suzuki. Especially given that the panel was an international panel.
    The treatment of Patrick Chan has also been disgusting at times on this forum. The sarcastic remarks etc. do nothing to help us have proper discussions about our sport.
    THIS!!! Thank you, jan!

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13KJC13 View Post
    THIS!!! Thank you, jan!
    I quite agree. This thread is really ridiculous.
    BTW - Here are the officials:
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp...2/SEG004OF.HTM
    It is an international panel. There was one Canadian judge.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by trains View Post
    I quite agree. This thread is really ridiculous.
    BTW - Here are the officials:
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp...2/SEG004OF.HTM
    It is an international panel. There was one Canadian judge.
    Canadians like to brag how in Judging they are the teachers of what is good! Like the seminars that are all done by Lori Nichol. And people have brought up Dore.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I agree that Suzuki should have won the competition. Kaetlyn gave two good performances, but she doesn't have Suzuki's speed and personality on the ice. Kaetlyn's PCS scores in the FS were hugely inflated and Akiko's were held down. That's how the win was eked out for Kaetlyn.
    In all honesty, I don't have that big of a problem with Kaetlyn winning because she did have a lead from the SP, and although Akiko won the LP doing 5 clean triples and Kaetlyn doing 4 triples, Kaetlyn did have an extra double which lessens the TES gap between them. It was close.

    PCS: Kaetlyn has a delightful personality and seems to be a very warm, natural performer. I suspect she must have some dance background. I don't object to her getting a higher Performance mark than Akiko. On the other hand, Akiko's Skating Skills, Choreography and Interpretation should really have been higher. 8's and especially 9's for Kaetlyn in the PCS sections are blatantly

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I believe the judges are overly influenced by the reaction of the crowd. Canadian audiences invariably give riotous standing ovations for all the Canadian competitors while giving the non-Canadians polite applause. Did anyone else notice that when Ralph/Hill were placed last in the SD, the audience booed the marks?
    I don't recall the booing, but I was at Skate Canada last year and what you say in the bold is true. Maybe not for every single audience member, but this was my impression at the time. Now there is this one sweet lady who has a Canadian sweater who brought multiple flags to cheer for skaters from other countries. Canadian flag, American flag, Japanese flag, etc. to suit her needs. But, as far as general noise-level goes, I agree with you.

    What are some other factors that may have swayed some judges?
    - as others mentioned, maybe it was trying to overcompensate for guilt from the SP under-estimation of Osmond.
    - maybe they are trying to win small favours for the 2013 Worlds-to-be?

    I don't have a huge problem with Kaetlyn being given the win here, because I don't quite "get" Akiko enough to rave about her. But come on, where in Kaetlyn's LP did she deserve 9's in any PCS? I can't help but be suspicious about that.

  12. #72
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    It's also worth noting that the the British Eurosport commentators applauded the Canadian crowd at the Olympics for cheering loudly for every skater after Suzuki's skate. Indeed, they had more praise for the audience than the skater, it seemed. Skate Canada did seem quiet, and I'd be interested if the audience has shifted.

    Chuck, yeah - they booed the low scores of R/H in the SD. At 4CC Colorado, the audience booed the low scores of the Shibs and D/W. At the Olympics, the Turin audience jeered the low scores of F-P/M in the OD. Chuck, which competitions did you go to in Canada (which cities).

    let's talk, I think you're argument presents the long term problem, but the thing is, most individuals don't need to think long term (consider, as an analogy, the cost of pollution by big companies). In the long run, I agree, it doesn't help (and we've seen that recently with Canadian Nationals losing it's major sponsor in the Bank of Montreal and it's struggle to find another one). Truthfully, I'm not sure to what extent David Dore is the problem, though I will point out that in the run-up to Worlds 2007, Skate Canada didn't have a particularly close relationship with Dore once he left to work with the ISU - something they hoped to remedy, admittedly.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by jan View Post
    I find all of this discussion disheartening to say the least. Goldenskate used to be a forum where the merits of the skating were discussed politely and, at times, different posters agreed to disagree. During the last few years this has changed and there is now blatant dislike of skaters with rude and snide comments regarding their appearance, nationality etc.
    Would I have had the results a little different? Yes, but I am not about to declare a conspiracy against Suzuki. Especially given that the panel was an international panel.
    The treatment of Patrick Chan has also been disgusting at times on this forum. The sarcastic remarks etc. do nothing to help us have proper discussions about our sport.
    Actually, having been a member of this board for 10+ years, although there's some truth to this (I'll get to that in a sec), I must say things were hardly all sunshine and roses even back then. Posters have always had their favorites and that fact has ALWAYS influenced discussion and opinions not just around here, but on other skating forums. And fan favorites don't really balance out so much...many skaters tend to have more fans (or at least more vocal ones) than others, and it shows in the discussions. this is HARDLY a new issue.

    However, I agree about the general tone becoming somewhat more hostile in recent years. It began with the Kim/Asada fanwars around 2008, I think. But then the makeup of GS has changed significantly (IMO) in the past few years as well.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by prettykeys View Post
    In all honesty, I don't have that big of a problem with Kaetlyn winning because she did have a lead from the SP, and although Akiko won the LP doing 5 clean triples and Kaetlyn doing 4 triples, Kaetlyn did have an extra double which lessens the TES gap between them. It was close.

    PCS: Kaetlyn has a delightful personality and seems to be a very warm, natural performer. I suspect she must have some dance background. I don't object to her getting a higher Performance mark than Akiko. On the other hand, Akiko's Skating Skills, Choreography and Interpretation should really have been higher. 8's and especially 9's for Kaetlyn in the PCS sections are blatantly

    I don't recall the booing, but I was at Skate Canada last year and what you say in the bold is true. Maybe not for every single audience member, but this was my impression at the time. Now there is this one sweet lady who has a Canadian sweater who brought multiple flags to cheer for skaters from other countries. Canadian flag, American flag, Japanese flag, etc. to suit her needs. But, as far as general noise-level goes, I agree with you.

    What are some other factors that may have swayed some judges?
    - as others mentioned, maybe it was trying to overcompensate for guilt from the SP under-estimation of Osmond.
    - maybe they are trying to win small favours for the 2013 Worlds-to-be?

    I don't have a huge problem with Kaetlyn being given the win here, because I don't quite "get" Akiko enough to rave about her. But come on, where in Kaetlyn's LP did she deserve 9's in any PCS? I can't help but be suspicious about that.
    Are you saying she didn't deserve a 9.25 and a 9? That judge obviously had to restrain themselves from giving Osmond 10's she is so magnificent!

  15. #75
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    Thank you for this! My friends and I have always felt great fondness for Katia and Yags. And Scotty was pretty much an honourary Canadian! At SC, Fernandez got a standing O, according to what I saw on tv.

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