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Thread: Should the ISU carry out an Inquiry into the outcome of the Ladies FS at Skate Canada

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Really? I find it hard to believe that the average Canadian doesn't know who Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir are. After all, they won gold in Vancouver! Please forgive my ignorance. I thought that many Canadians are avid followers of figure skating, especially those attending a GP skating event. Of course, it makes sense that not everyone in the audience is necessarily that knowledgeable about the sport. Still I thought that figure skating coverage in Canada is much more prominent than it is in the U.S.
    Until the Vancouver games, Canada had never won an Olympic gold medal on home soil. To be fair, Canada had only ever hosted two Olympics. The 1976 Montreal summer games where Nadia Comaneci made history in Gymnastics, and the 1988 winter Olympics. For Vancouver, an "own-the-podium" committee was formed setting a challenge for Canadian athletes to win more medals than any other country (likely they were expecting mostly bronze). A program was put into place providing funding and rewards for medal wins (unlike the US, China, Russia, etc., Canada had never rewarded athletes for their medal achievements). During the first week of the Vancouver Olympics, it looked as if the program was a total failure. The program organizers were beginning to make their excuses in the media. Then Alexandre Bilodeau (a mogul skier) broke the jinx, and won the first gold medal. Throughout the remaining week, the gold medals began pouring in. The "own-the-podium" program failed to win the most medals, but achieved what organizers likely thought impossible. The Canadian athletes won more gold than any other country. The medals which received the most media attention where Alexandre's (since it was the first), Joannie's bronze (due to her circumstances), and of course the men's hockey gold. Both Alexandre and the hockey team even received special mention in the speeches at the closing ceremony, and the camera did a closeup of him sitting among the other athletes. Why am I telling you all this? ...So you can see things from the Canadian media perspective. Tessa and Scott's gold was just one of many, and not the most publicized outside of it's sporting niche.

    In Canadian newspapers, figure skating is hardly mentioned. Looking in the sports section, you will typically find only pictures and daily news about Hockey, Football, Baseball, and Basketball. If it were not for CTV and CBC broadcasting figure skating events, the sport would be almost non-existent in the minds of the average Canadian. However from what I have read on these figure skating boards, it would seem figure skating in Canada is still more popular than in the USA. However, don't assume the "average" Canadian is knowledgeable about the sport. Like any other country, there is a mix of interest levels. There is the "wouldn't be caught dead watching figure skating". "It is for women and gay men, and not even a real sport". Next comes the "indifferent people". They have nothing against figure skating, but have no interest in watching it. During the Olympics, they are watching other channels showing skiing, snowboarding, etc. These people wouldn't know the skaters, much less their coaches. I'll admit, I was once one of them. If you had asked me who Toller Cranston was, I probably would have guessed a TV news anchor man (he has one of those names which sound like an anchor man). "...and now, the 6 oclock news with Toller Cranston" The next level would be the "casual" fan. These people will watch figure skating during the Olympics, or if they are bored and by chance had surfed to a figure skating event channel. These people may know some skater names, but not much else. I have one sister-in-law who falls into this category. I seriously doubt she watched the SCI broadcast this past weekend. However because of the Olympics, she probably does know V/M. My other sister-in-law I would classify as an "avid casual" fan. She records and watches all figure skating competitions on TV, but does not visit figure skating boards on the internet. She would know many of the top figure skaters names, but likely does not know bio details except what may be gleaned from commentator reports during competition broadcasts (some of which is likely later forgotten). Last year, I managed to convince her to attend SCI with me. She enjoyed herself, and asked me to let her know if there is ever another major competition organized in our area (I'll make an avid fan out of her yet ). As luck would have it, the Canadian Championships will be held in January at the same rink and we have our tickets ordered . Lastly comes the avid fans (of varying degrees), who do visit FS boards, and know bio information about the skaters. I would now classify myself in that category. However unlike others, I don't go to Worlds even if it is held in my area (too expensive), or typically travel great distances to attend an event. I guess I am at the lower end of the "avid fan" category.

    I have attended SCI in Kingston and Mississauga, but I do not recall if they had announced the skater's coaches during the warmup. Obviously, it is not something I pay attention to. If I am average, I would guess the same may hold true for the casual fans in attendance.

    ETA: Re-watched some of the competition. They only announced the skaters names during the warmup.

    P.S. My sister-in-law is a fan of Patrick, but at the Mississauga SCI event she also became a fan of Javier. I guess she likes his skating and on-ice personality. I think Kaetlyn also has that type of on-ice personality. I noticed the NBC commentators seemed to be taken with her.
    Last edited by rvi5; 11-03-2012 at 10:29 AM.

  2. #92
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    My thoughts on the Ladies FS result:
    -Akiko was the real winner, for me, her program really was a , and her PCS was far too low, she deserved something like 62-63 (for me);
    -Kaetlyn deserved the silver medal, I think: she was fairly judged in the TES but, even if I liked her Carmen, her PCS shouldn't have been 4 points higher than Liza's;
    -I don't like Kanako's jumps but she really skated almost the best she could, so she deserved a good score, but not the podium, for me;
    -Liza was the bronze medal, for me: her 55 PCS was REALLY too low, but that fall in the 3Lutz was just

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvi5 View Post
    Looking in the sports section, you will typically find only pictures and daily news about Hockey, Football, Baseball, and Basketball. If it were not for CTV and CBC broadcasting figure skating events, the sport would be almost non-existent in the minds of the average Canadian.
    In Japan, which is the current fs fandom, this sport doesn't have a section on the top panel of ticket selling machines in the convenience stores, unlike soccer, baseball, etc. You have to go to "winter sport" section first. In the ticket yahoo auction it doesn't have its separate section at all, it's listed in "others". So? No one is comparing popularity of FS to other sports. It's its own popularity, changing of it for the last years and corruption as one of the reason that is being discussed.

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    Anybody know what happened to the thread I started on the result of the Ladies event in which the question was asked whether there should be an ISU Inquiry into the result? I can't find it anywhere
    Last edited by Mao88; 10-29-2012 at 11:11 AM.

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    This is it I guess your title was too mean or political or something

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mao88 View Post
    Anybody know what happened to the thread I started on the result of the Ladies event in which the question was asked whether there should be an ISU Inquiry into the result? I can't find it anywhere
    Yeah, someone merged part of it into this thread. I think posts #84 to #90 was the end of your previous thread (see the last sentence of post #85). I don't know what happened to the front half of your old thread, possibly an inappropriate discussion? My post #86 was in response to post #85. Also my post #91 this morning, was in response to post #88. I noticed yesterday evening the thread had appeared in two forums simultaneously. I guess it was in the process of being merged when I posted.
    Last edited by rvi5; 10-29-2012 at 11:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rvi5 View Post
    Yeah, someone merged part of it into this thread. I think posts #84 to #90 was the end of your previous thread (see the last sentence of post #85). I don't know what happened to the front half of your old thread, possibly an inappropriate discussion? My post #86 was in response to post #85. Also my post #91 this morning, was in response to post #88. I noticed yesterday evening the thread had appeared in two forums simultaneously. I guess it was in the process of being merged when I posted.
    Thanks - this is the thread with a title change

    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    This is it I guess your title was too mean or political or something
    This is the thread - the changed title threw me. The old title was simply: "Should the ISU carry out an Inquiry into the outcome of the Ladies FS at Skate Canada?". Nothing mean about it. As for the politics, many have questioned the outcome and its a legitimate question to ask whether there should be an inquiry. That's the whole point of having a forum - to debate and discuss questions that arise, however uncomfortable the issues are for some that arise out of those questions. In my opinion, the title of the thread should have stayed the same (as the new one does not fully represent the nature of the discussion/debate) and the thread should have remained in "The Edge" as the discussion deals with issues which are wider than just Skate Canada.
    Last edited by Mao88; 10-29-2012 at 01:01 PM.

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    If the ISU perform an inquiry, they certainly would not discuss it in public. In any case, as mentioned previously in another thread, a possible explanation could be simple. Osmond did skate first in the SP, and was also a newbie with little senior history. The judges may have kept her score lower, expecting better results from following skaters. However, for many it soon became a splatfest. On reconsideration, the judges may have thought their marking of Osmond was too harsh. During the LP, they could have attempted to correct the situation by boosting her PCS. However since her LP was not as good as the SP, it became too obvious.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvi5 View Post
    ...a possible explanation could be simple. Osmond did skate first in the SP, and was also a newbie with little senior history. The judges may have kept her score lower, expecting better results from following skaters.

    The question then becomes, "Is this a fair practice?"

    This was common practice under the old 6.0 system - holding high marks for the later skaters. Wasn't NJS supposed to get rid of this? If so, we haven't accomplished anything.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mao88 View Post
    Thanks - this is the thread with a title change



    This is the thread - the changed title threw me. The old title was simply: "Should the ISU carry out an Inquiry into the outcome of the Ladies FS at Skate Canada?". Nothing mean about it. As for the politics, many have questioned the outcome and its a legitimate question to ask whether there should be an inquiry. That's the whole point of having a forum - to debate and discuss questions that arise, however uncomfortable the issues are for some that arise out of those questions. In my opinion, the title of the thread should have stayed the same (as the new one does not fully represent the nature of the discussion/debate) and the thread should have remained in "The Edge" as the discussion deals with issues which are wider than just Skate Canada.
    I agree with you 100%!!

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mao88 View Post
    Anybody know what happened to the thread I started on the result of the Ladies event in which the question was asked whether there should be an ISU Inquiry into the result? I can't find it anywhere
    Yes, I'm also looking for it.

  12. #102
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    In my opinion, the title of the thread should have stayed the same (as the new one does not fully represent the nature of the discussion/debate) and the thread should have remained in "The Edge" as the discussion deals with issues which are wider than just Skate Canada.
    The titles in the threads are constantly edited or revised for various reasons. In this case, the problem with this thread was that the title was too long as it ties into the main page where we have our Forum Feed and was taking up too much room. To solve the problem, we have changed the title back and will remove the Event Forums from the Main page feed.

  13. #103
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    There is no point in the ISU investigating itself.
    i totally agree...they have been doing questionable things for years...:(

  14. #104
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    BTW, with regards to Murakami's "underrotated" jumps:

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...amiTAKEOFF.png

    ^ Here is where she leaves the ice on the 3Loop. As is standard for many jumps, and is in fact ideal for the Loop and Salchow jumps, she pre-rotates one half turn on the ice before fully leaving the ice. From this point she needs to turn 2 and 1/4 rotations in the air in order for the jump to be considered complete (that's where the "1/4 turn short" mark is).

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...urakamiAIR.png

    ^ In this picture Murkami has just about made it to the 1/4 turn mark and she is STILL IN THE AIR. Right here it's plain to see the jump is going to be sufficiently rotated.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...amiLANDING.png

    ^ And here is the actual landing, many degrees past the 1/4 turn mark. If her toepick perhaps touched down slightly earlier than this picture is able to show, it still would have been within that 1/4 turn mark based upon the proof of the previous pictures. It's rather obvious that this is a good jump to begin with when you see it in motion.

  15. #105
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    Okay, I have remained silent, probably too long lol. First, while there are many educated people out there it is not unfathomable considering Akiko's errors in the short that Osmond won or could possibly win with her routines. Second, I don't think there is a lot of politicking and if there is then one could say the same thing at Skate America. The Americans pairs could have been dinged for doing well technically but slaughtered in pcs. One can argue they have had for years a lot of power - they always seemed to have skater in the top ten and arguably it is not just because they are so good. Ashley arguably was overmarked at SA. And DAvis and White were given very very generous scores for programs that not only need mileage are not looking so great comparatively to past performances and programs.

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