10-28-2012, 03:11 PM
Sure Carmen triumphs---she is the dumper and Don Jose the dumpee. He has lost everything and she moves on to her toreador. But Don Jose gets his revenge in the end---what goes around comes around.
10-28-2012, 07:45 PM
Yes, WHOW - just amazing V/M program even in its season debut with some bobbles. Another masterpiece with incredible difficulty & risky moves; excellent costuming, beautiful lines, ss, transitions and loved that their expression was communicated (the modern dance aspect) in their body positions rather than overdone facial expressions. Agree, bladz123, C/L did look somewhat junior at times & their expression non existent except at the end. Quite predicatable with her "pretty" poses although I did like their choreography though. And yes, V/M way ahead - David & White's new program not very interesting & seemed a compilation of previous material
10-28-2012, 08:08 PM
A belated welcome to the forum, Ice Diva. We hope you like it here. Post often, post long!
10-28-2012, 08:20 PM
So true, and such a relief.
Originally Posted by pangtongfan
10-28-2012, 10:48 PM
"Hold an edge and look sexy!"
Not sure of anyone who ever suggested Paul & Piper were going to be a threat to Kaitlyn & Andrew this season, but obviously they are going to have to pay their dues before being fully recognized on an international stage. They haven't yet even attended 1 World Championship together, so of course they are not going to bump the #3 Russian team off the podium. This Skate Canada was their first ever international event together; the judges aren't just going to automatically vault them onto the podium out of nowhere ahead of 3 internationally established teams that have placed top 10 in the World. They've only been a team for a little over a year and had no international competition exposure prior to this GP. Sure, Tessa & Scott won a silver medal at their first senior GP Skate Canada back in fall 2006, but they had also been a team for over 6 years and had already had senior international experience having won bronze at the 2006 4CC. Weaver/Poje placed 6th at their 1st senior GP Skate Canada back in fall 2007 and had been a team for over 4 years and had already attended a World Championship in 2007, where they placed 20th. A 4th place at a 1st event together is certainly nothing to scoff at for Gilles/Poirier.
Originally Posted by pangtongfan
Last edited by museksk8r; 10-28-2012 at 10:57 PM.
10-29-2012, 06:37 AM
V/M's program was sensual, commanding, and passionate. I really loved it. They really told the story of Carmen. Their chemistry is natural and believable , even when its not a soft romantic program. You really feel the interaction between them. Though i enjoyed D/W's free i felt their interaction was acted and i didn't feel a true sense of chemistry between them.
10-29-2012, 08:21 AM
To me, ice dancing is an Olympic sport. I thought the free dances of both Virtue and Moir and Davis and White were long on "connection," short on sport. An over-emphasis on passion and role-playing just stokes the fire for those people (some within figure skating itself) who ask why ice dancing is in the Olympics at all. Why didn't Davis and White get a time deduction for choreography that kept on going long after their performance was over?
10-29-2012, 09:49 AM
What happened to Tessa on the victory ceremony?
10-29-2012, 10:00 AM
She had what could politely be termed "tummy troubles" (according to the arena announcer).
Mathman, what makes ice dance a sport to you? If we understand that, it'll help to understand why Carmen and Notre Dame fail on those grounds. I mean, elsewhere you mentioned that the programs were difficult but not precise, but difficulty seems to be in the realm of sport to me.
10-29-2012, 01:57 PM
Weaver /Poje teamed up in the 2006/2007 season, so it was in their second season,where they placed 6th at their first Senior Grand Prix(Skate Canada 2007).Both came just up from juniors and neither of them had the experience and success Paul Poirier already had.
Originally Posted by museksk8r
10-29-2012, 02:15 PM
Yes Paul may have the experience but Piper and Paul are both very young. He is experienced but not mature. W&P are much older - 23 and 25 - almost the same age as Tessa a& Scott - so they bring a certain maturity of interpretation and dance to the table. Paul & Piper are a work in progress and I hope they progress.
10-29-2012, 02:35 PM
It's a stretch in any case. Ice dance is not, after all, four guys going downhill in a bobsled.
Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue
But in terms of competition, I think Fledermaus is on the right track. The dancers are not acting out scenes from the comic operetta, They are not portraying characters. They are not pretending to be in love (although the scent of romance is present in all dancing). They are performing a classic period waltz. Yes, they are in costume, but only in the way that a baseball uniform is a costume -- this is what people wear when they play baseball.
It is a competition in the sense that, hey, chump, if you think you can do a better waltz, come on!
More generally, I think the ISU does not understand why people watch sports. The ISU has turned skating in a ever more Baroque direction. More layers of ornamentation, more nuanced embellishment. Less guts and glue.
Here is an example from the ladies' discipline. This is Michelle Kwan's long program at 2004 U.S. Nationals (the last year before the CoP took hold). This was one of the greatest U.S. sporting performances of the year. As thrilling as Phil Mickleson beating Ernie Els by one stroke in the Masters on a clutch birdie putt on the eighteenth.
Yet if you analyze Michelle's skate, there were no transitions to speak of, just seven well-telegraphed jumping passes, woven together by basic across-the-ice skating skills (the guts and the glue ). Throw in a couple of level 1 spins and enough of a spiral to let us know she hasn't forgotten how to do it, finish off with a rousing but not very difficult step sequence -- and Bob's your uncle!
Likewise, although she skated to some dramatic music from Tosca, Michelle did not try to pretend to be the character from the opera. She did not feign anguish, tearing out her hair and throwing herself off a parapet. Michelle is not a tragic fictional heroine, she is an athlete competing in the national championship of her sport.
There has not been a comparable competitive performance by any lady at U.S. nationals since. I do not expect to live long enough ever to see its equal.
10-29-2012, 04:30 PM
Mathman - you said it all! And thanks for a fabulous trip down memory lane (her straightline ftwork is my favorite part of that LP). Michelle's skating was what figure skating is supposed to be all about - great athleticism made even tougher/more challenging by artistic touches (first thing I noticed as her LP began were those expressive hands). That SO and the flowers, stuffed animals being tossed onto the ice - I'd forgotten what that looked like it's been so long. Back to ice dancing: I'm so weary of all the criticisms about some teams not being connected. Last year's D/W free dance was breathtaking in the speed, incredible lifts, presentation, etc., and yet these two amazing athletes were made to feel as though they didn't "connect" enough (thus the silliness of their extra on-ice dramatic embrace this year).
10-29-2012, 05:18 PM
I don't like V/M 's costumes, but I adore their program!! Difficult, modern, and they had passion!
10-29-2012, 06:35 PM
I agree that ice dance is being hit too hard about connections and chemistry. Last year, V/M and D/W had light, uppity free dances but it wasn't deep enough. This year, both teams have gone the other direction with majorly dramatic and intense musical selections. There's something to be said! I think both teams have marvelous connection--V/M seemingly more romantic and lovey-dovey while D/W seemingly more passionate and love-hate. But each pairing is totally fine! Ugh, end of soap box.
So, we have two very different Carmens. I like them both but boy, they are vastly different interpretations. I just love C/L! They came onto my radar last year for their incredible short dance and I was psyched to see them put the heat on V/M here. Though V/M had their mistakes, it was still an eye-opener. I hope that it gives them more confidence!
I like V/M's Carmen though I think the choreo and some of the lift positions are too... over the top. Like random kicks and spazzes throughout the program. I mean, it's dramatic music but you don't have throw yourself off the parapet as someone mentioned earlier. It's too much and in some cases, it actually pulled me out of the performance cuz I was like "huh?" I blame all this on the connection soapbox above. I think the program will settle down but after the initial viewing, it just felt odd and I wasn't really sure what to make of it.