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Thread: Skate Canada 2012 Mens - Long Program (4:10PM PST/7:10PM EST)

  1. #181
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    Good to see Fernandez win after being denied 2 Grand Prix event wins last years by bad and biased judging, Skate Canada and in Russia, especialy the Russian event where he never should have lost to Hanyu.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    No offense to his fans, but I simply do not care for Nobunari Oda's skating and lack of personality on the ice. Yes, he has soft knees and amazing ice coverage, and deep edges (but not deeper than Chan's, IMO). Oda has had a lot of help with choreography and costumes to help him project and develop more artistry, but to me he simply is not there. Oda is constantly over-rated on PCS, simply because of his amazing jumping ability and ice coverage. I found Oda's fp music grating, and the program just did not come together for me. To me both Oda and Amodio have a jerky way of setting up for jumps that I find completely distracting and disruptive to the flow of their programs. Amodio does have a better fp this year. I can see why Amodio and Ten are rated highly in PCS, but I feel that Oda is over-rated in PCS, especially PE, CH, and IN. I think Oda's sp works better than his fp.
    So agree with you about Oda's skating. Yes, his knees are wonderful and his jumps very soft but he skates the whole darn program on two feet! There's just no comparison between his skating and Patrick's. I find most of the Japanese men flail their arms trying to create drama but it's very hollow emotionally. In addition to Patrick's superior skating skills, he's doing his whole program at top speed too.

    I really like Patrick's long program. It suits him very much and I'm sure by worlds it'll be truly great.

  3. #183
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    I watched Patrick's performance again and I said to myself: "That wasn't that bad." Beautifully skated. Lots of great moments. Technical-wise, it was no worse than his usual outings in an early season. No panic, folk. He will get his jumps back as the season progresses.

  4. #184
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    Well, color me surprised at the results when I returned home just now. That said:

    ** I loved Javier's program! And boy he packed a ton of tech content in there. 2 quads + 7 triples, WOW! And just to think he was going to do another quad (so 3 quads and 6 triples). Orser is really challenging his skaters to do more in the second half. ---4T-2T, 3Z-2T and 3F+1L-3S. Incredible! And he makes a cute Chaplin -- also I liked that different music cuts were used...so it didn't feel like the same City Lights version we heard a billion times before.
    ** Chan, all things considered, not a bad program. I like the choreography, and I will say that he has improved with his connection. But too many little jump errors. I hope he works it out later.
    ** Oda -- Okay Art&Sport, I will concede this program did not do much for me. I love he's skating to Sorcerer's Apprentice and I love his skating edges + knees -- but honestly, I won't be watching this performance again like I did with the short (we'll still disagree on that one). Still I just so glad he's back in the mix!
    ** Miner -- I love this program -- it really highlights his very classy, but subtle skating style. Such as nice comeback from the SP, though he made a few errors. B He has some great highlights in there including two 3A, and the lovely 3Z-1L-3S combo. I expect he'll get that 4S at some point this season, just as he figured out the 3A during the 2010-2011 season. But as I said in the past, this guy is underrated. I think he will sneak on the World team again this year...

    I haven't seen the rest of them yet, so I'll refrain from commenting on them until I see them.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Well, color me surprised at the results when I returned home just now. That said:

    ** I loved Javier's program! And boy he packed a ton of tech content in there. 2 quads + 7 triples, WOW! And just to think he was going to do another quad (so 3 quads and 6 triples). Orser is really challenging his skaters to do more in the second half. ---4T-2T, 3Z-2T and 3F+1L-3S. Incredible! And he makes a cute Chaplin -- also I liked that different music cuts were used...so it didn't feel like the same City Lights version we heard a billion times before.
    ** Chan, all things considered, not a bad program. I like the choreography, and I will say that he has improved with his connection. But too many little jump errors. I hope he works it out later.
    ** Oda -- Okay Art&Sport, I will concede this program did not do much for me. I love he's skating to Sorcerer's Apprentice and I love his skating edges + knees -- but honestly, I won't be watching this performance again like I did with the short (we'll still disagree on that one). Still I just so glad he's back in the mix!
    ** Miner -- I love this program -- it really highlights his very classy, but subtle skating style. Such as nice comeback from the SP, though he made a few errors. B He has some great highlights in there including two 3A, and the lovely 3Z-1L-3S combo. I expect he'll get that 4S at some point this season, just as he figured out the 3A during the 2010-2011 season. But as I said in the past, this guy is underrated. I think he will sneak on the World team again this year...
    I so agree with you on Oda! I'm so glad he's back in the mix! It would be an upset, but I do think it's possible for him to make the world team. But yeah, I like Sorcerer's Apprentice as a music choice, even though that scene in Phantasia traumatized me as a kid, I think the middle part of the program isn't memorable at all. I liked the footwork at the end, though. And his skating is insane; knees, edges, fast twizzles... Hope we'll see him get some more medals this season!

    As for Javi, I kept seeing Oda at the beginning of his Charlie Chaplin. Oda was quite endearing as Chaplin too, so it took me a while to get used to Javi. The quad sal was a thing of beauty Hope he'll carry momentum into Euros!

  6. #186
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    I know I'm late piping in here, but from what I've read it seems I pretty much agree with the general vibe here.

    I was happy with the results, and felt the judging was really fair.

    Oda really didn't thrill me. I know his jumps were great, but there was next to no choreography in the actual program, and he seemed a little lifeless. I know he's been struggling with injury, though, so I applaud him for doing so well in spite of that.

    As for Patrick, I was actually pretty happy with the skate. I've seen him look a lot worse at this point in the season before. I thought the program was a real winner, a great departure from his usual style. Also, I felt he was emoting and feeling his music at a level that I have never seen from him before. I felt the same with his stunning SP from Friday. I don't worry about him, really. His abilities are still unmatched, IMO, when he is at his best, and he tends to sputter along until the national championships most seasons, so this wasn't terribly surprising.

    I was so impressed with Fernandez! I was at Skate Canada last year, and I really didn't like him. I felt his programs weren't intricate enough. Well, I'm eating my words now. That Charlie Chaplin FS is absolutely wonderful, jam packed with tansitions and full of character. Plus, after the fall on the first quad he was neraly flawless. Certainly deserved the win here, and I was happy to see him do it in Canada, because he has quite a helathy fan following over here (us Canadian fans tend to adopt foreign skaters who train here as our own).

  7. #187
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    No way Oda's PCS should be lower than Javi's. They are either equal or even higher. If he were fairly scored, he would be with silver over Chan. But that simply couldn't happen in Canada. If Chan ended up on 3rd, and knowing that his next GP is in Russia where the audience didn't raise to greet him even with clean skating at Worlds-11, it's absolutely not clear if he can win there. So, if having the 3rd at SC, he would end up in a very tough position to qualify for GPF. As the result- judges gifted him 2nd over Oda to ensure more or less Chan's spot at GPF. Who said chanflation is over?

    Kudos to Mura for being the only one besides Javi who landed without -GOE The Men's set of three elements of major difficulty: either 2 quads one in combo + 3A (Javi, the second quad with bonus which I don't remember happened last time), or a quad + 2 3A (Mura, the best choice in his case considering that he has the most wow 3A in the current field if not in the history). And thanks to him for using so rarely used Japanese music in figure skating.

    Well, the true Men's set is two quads one in combo + two 3A one in combo. Gachi was the only one who at least tried to do that.

  8. #188
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    I think Oda got low-balled in program component scores. His style is neat and compact rather than flamboyant, and he doesn't use large movements and gestures to draw attention. But IMHO this is to his credit. I thought his Sorcerer's Apprentice was charming, with a nice matching of movement to music.

    Chan's advantage lies in how he pushes outward from his core. Still, I thought that a 9-point gap in PCSs for Chan over Oda was excessive. Chan's three bad mistakes on jumps had a pretty large negative impact on the quality of the program as a whole and this should have been taken more into account in the program components, in my opinion.

  9. #189
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    My 3 favorite programs, choreographically, were Oda's Sorcerer, Ten's Artist & Miner's Pirate. I like programs with a definite point of view. I think I've seen too many Charlie Chaplin's over the years. I kept having flashbacks to Petr Barna & Todd Eldredge. Barna's was an exhibition program in full costume & mustache. He was spot on Chaplin. Disappointed with Chan. He needs help with his jumps altho one wonders how much judges marks in the past have influenced him into believing he can manage with a dance instructor as a coach. And, who am I to say? Maybe he can.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Chan's three bad mistakes on jumps had a pretty large negative impact on the quality of the program as a whole and this should have been taken more into account in the program components, in my opinion.
    While they were errors, I didn't come away feeling like they took away too much from the overall package... maybe I'm so used to thinking it'll happen that it doesn't *ruin* anything for me?

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think Oda got low-balled in program component scores. His style is neat and compact rather than flamboyant, and he doesn't use large movements and gestures to draw attention. But IMHO this is to his credit. I thought his Sorcerer's Apprentice was charming, with a nice matching of movement to music.

    Chan's advantage lies in how he pushes outward from his core. Still, I thought that a 9-point gap in PCSs for Chan over Oda was excessive. Chan's three bad mistakes on jumps had a pretty large negative impact on the quality of the program as a whole and this should have been taken more into account in the program components, in my opinion.
    Oda isnt even one of the top 3 Japanese anymore. I doubt his federation is backing him at all anymore. They definitely dont want him on their World team over any of Hanyu, Takahashi, or Kozuka.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Chan's three bad mistakes on jumps had a pretty large negative impact on the quality of the program as a whole
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    While they were errors, I didn't come away feeling like they took away too much from the overall package...
    To me, it was one error too many. My ability to ignore errors and still be able to concentrate on the program seems to be limited to two. The third one basically ruined it. All I could remember was the first half of the program and the rest became a blur. It wasn't until I reviewed the footage when I realized it wasn't so bad overall. I think the score fairly reflected so. Javier's cleaner performance, which had a blatant mistake as well, received 8.43 in PE, which is higher than Chan's 8.39.
    You got to give Chan credit for his improved artistry. His subtle facial expression at the very beginning of the program successfully convinced me that he was going to tell a story through his skating, a story that he could honestly feel rather than fake. Javier's performance, however, is more like acting. His expression doesn't match his brain, which seemed to be occupied by what the next move would come.
    Last edited by skatinginbc; 10-28-2012 at 01:50 PM.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by jan View Post
    I also think Oda's SS are way underscored. His speed and jump technique are the best in the world. Fernandez is nowhere close to him.
    His score was way too lowballs. The only mistake, a step out on second 3A w no combo...the rest of the program was pretty good. Def better than his previous programs.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc
    To me, it was one error too many. My ability to ignore errors and still be able to concentrate on the program seems to be limited to two. The third one basically ruined it.
    When I watch skating I want to be transported over the rainbow. When the skater falls it's like, who is that little man behind the curtain?

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    While they were errors, I didn't come away feeling like they took away too much from the overall package... maybe I'm so used to thinking it'll happen that it doesn't *ruin* anything for me?
    LOL well peoples are so used to see him with too many errors many times, it hardly become a surprise. Many prob going to feel 'Oh he will win or end up on podium no matters what, so can we move on to the next skaters...' lol

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