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Thread: Who is Russia's best skater going into Sochi?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    If Liza wants the judges to start giving her higher PCS, she better start working on things like ice coverage, skating skills and choreography. Improving in areas like choreography, however, may necessitate a coaching change.
    I agree that in this era she should use the off season to see if changing coaches would be the best thing for her because her pcs is getting worse. Judges are really penalizing her for her lack of ice coverage and her choreography. I thought I saw her go further to the corners this season but her pcs went down so maybe it was just superficial and shift to a coach that is more pcs than jumps would be good.

  2. #122
    Custom Title LRK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I agree that in this era she should use the off season to see if changing coaches would be the best thing for her because her pcs is getting worse. Judges are really penalizing her for her lack of ice coverage and her choreography. I thought I saw her go further to the corners this season but her pcs went down so maybe it was just superficial and shift to a coach that is more pcs than jumps would be good.
    Don't you think she has had enough to contend with this season, in trying to bring her former form back, without being surprised that she hasn't had the time/energy to work on IMROVING other areas? A bit unreasonable, I think. Give her time. This season is a recouperating one, she is doing well, all things considering, I think.

    ETA And I completely and utterly disagree with the notion that she lacks "artistry"; but then, I often disagree with those who apparently consider it their business to lay down the law on what does and does not constitute "artistry", that I can only assume that, if they are indeed right, and their Opinion is indeed Fact, I can have no idea of what is "artistic" and not.
    Last edited by LRK; 01-08-2013 at 11:16 PM.

  3. #123
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    I think what hurts Liza`s the PCS the most are:

    1. Lack of wow flexability moves that some of her teammates have.
    2. Lack of speed and ice coverage at times.
    3. She is being made to wait her turn for the current veteran stars to retire after Sochi, barring being so great she literally forces the door down, which she hasnt yet.

  4. #124
    Custom Title LRK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I think what hurts Liza`s the PCS the most are:

    1. Lack of wow flexability moves that some of her teammates have.
    2. Lack of speed and ice coverage at times.
    3. She is being made to wait her turn for the current veteran stars to retire after Sochi, barring being so great she literally forces the door down, which she hasnt yet.
    I think I more or less agree with this. I definitely don't think this is "her" season - although I don't think she should be written off as medal contender. And I think that next season a gold in one of the greater competitions, while not completely impossible, is unlikely. I'm not worried about her, though, not at all - her time will come.

  5. #125
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I agree that in this era she should use the off season to see if changing coaches would be the best thing for her because her pcs is getting worse. Judges are really penalizing her for her lack of ice coverage and her choreography. I thought I saw her go further to the corners this season but her pcs went down so maybe it was just superficial and shift to a coach that is more pcs than jumps would be good.
    Improving choreography and ice coverage don't necessitate a coaching change; just a choreographer change. Liza's jumps are excellent though her spins could use work, but they're improving too. I think Liza's programs fit her style but she can do more. A better choreographer could put together a program that utilizes the ice more effectively. Last year she only skated on one side of the rink but she's improved this season. A more complete program could get her to use the ice end to end.

    As for the movements themselves, she just needs a choreographer to pull more out of her on an "artistic" level. Liza isn't a pwetty pwrincess type skater. Her style is more attitude and flair and that's fine...it fits her Russian diva personality on the ice (which I love BTW). She just needs to find a choreographer who can give her a great piece of music and some great choreography that showcases her great ability to perform. Liza gets into her music and gives everything a little extra umph! when she skates. The right choreographer can take those aspects of her skating and turn it into something great...

  6. #126
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    I know Castelli and Shnapir mentioned that their new choreographer made them swear to commit to NOT changing the choreography (ie, making it easier) and to work through it as layed out and they said that in turn helped them commit to their training and each other and now the program is "easy". The issue Liza T is going to have is no matter who she has choreograph the program, Mishin likes to tinker and dumb down transitions and choreography in his skaters' programs instead of letting the choreographer do their job...he will have to commit to NOT doing that.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    I think I more or less agree with this. I definitely don't think this is "her" season - although I don't think she should be written off as medal contender. And I think that next season a gold in one of the greater competitions, while not completely impossible, is unlikely. I'm not worried about her, though, not at all - her time will come.
    Yes I agree with that. I dont think she is likely to medal this year, but I do think she has an outside shot of a medal based on her late season progression. I would put her odds on par or above Suzuki at his point actually, but behind Kim, Asada, Kostner, and Wagner. By next year she could be even more of a contender, and quite likely will be Russia's best medal hope (though not certain as alot can happen in a year). Post Sochi she should definitely be one of those that shines in a big way.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Improving choreography and ice coverage don't necessitate a coaching change; just a choreographer change. Liza's jumps are excellent though her spins could use work, but they're improving too. I think Liza's programs fit her style but she can do more. A better choreographer could put together a program that utilizes the ice more effectively. Last year she only skated on one side of the rink but she's improved this season. A more complete program could get her to use the ice end to end.

    As for the movements themselves, she just needs a choreographer to pull more out of her on an "artistic" level. Liza isn't a pwetty pwrincess type skater. Her style is more attitude and flair and that's fine...it fits her Russian diva personality on the ice (which I love BTW). She just needs to find a choreographer who can give her a great piece of music and some great choreography that showcases her great ability to perform. Liza gets into her music and gives everything a little extra umph! when she skates. The right choreographer can take those aspects of her skating and turn it into something great...
    But this is what bothered me this season about Lisa - she got 4 programs choreographed for her in the summer - two by David Wilson and two I think by Tom Dickson, both high quality choreographers. I was very excited about this fact and was expecting Lisa to have the excellent set of programs given the choice she had (hoping she'd choose one program from Wilson and one from Dickson). She first decided to go with both programs done by David Wilson, which is OK, but later she replaced her new short with the last year's short. Now of all 4 programs made for her she is only using one - the "Dark eyes" long, which in its spirit is not that much different from all the programs she had before. So I am not sure any choreographer can help her much until she is ready herself to perform something different from what she has being doing so far. I mean if none of the two short programs made for her was good enough, I don't even know what to think of it.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Improving choreography and ice coverage don't necessitate a coaching change; just a choreographer change. Liza's jumps are excellent though her spins could use work, but they're improving too. I think Liza's programs fit her style but she can do more. A better choreographer could put together a program that utilizes the ice more effectively. Last year she only skated on one side of the rink but she's improved this season. A more complete program could get her to use the ice end to end.

    As for the movements themselves, she just needs a choreographer to pull more out of her on an "artistic" level. Liza isn't a pwetty pwrincess type skater. Her style is more attitude and flair and that's fine...it fits her Russian diva personality on the ice (which I love BTW). She just needs to find a choreographer who can give her a great piece of music and some great choreography that showcases her great ability to perform. Liza gets into her music and gives everything a little extra umph! when she skates. The right choreographer can take those aspects of her skating and turn it into something great...
    I like the skating and programs but like the pcs is going down. And I think like what was posted above how she went to all these choreographers and didn't really adopt anything new as a reason her pcs might be going down. People are talking about how she's not growing and not doing Anything really good in pcs and it's decreasing.

  10. #130
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    ^I dont know which people are talking but she is 16 and in her first full senior season, i m not sure how fast fans crown or write off a skater' s abilities but i dont agree with it.

    I had seen Liza' s dark eyes on the making and is pretty much exactly the same as what she was skating in early June, Mishin has not stripped sth out, I just think Wilson gave her a program up to her measure that didn't challenge her a lot, Dickson's program was much more difficult to skate I think.

  11. #131
    Huge Scott Moir Fan Macassar88's Avatar
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    Two words that could make Liza a huge contender for the podium in Sochi -
    Triple Axel
    We've seen her do it, and I feel like, if she works on it in the off season since she has her other jumps back already, that would give her a huge point boost.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    ^I dont know which people are talking but she is 16 and in her first full senior season, i m not sure how fast fans crown or write off a skater' s abilities but i dont agree with it.

    I had seen Liza' s dark eyes on the making and is pretty much exactly the same as what she was skating in early June, Mishin has not stripped sth out, I just think Wilson gave her a program up to her measure that didn't challenge her a lot, Dickson's program was much more difficult to skate I think.
    I hope she performs well at euros and worlds and that her pcs goes up to where it was last season and the jumps are also good and the sp goes well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    Two words that could make Liza a huge contender for the podium in Sochi -
    Triple Axel
    We've seen her do it, and I feel like, if she works on it in the off season since she has her other jumps back already, that would give her a huge point boost.
    The only video proof of that is so old now! I can't even remember a practice report from one of her comps that indicated any attempts. Have there been?

  13. #133
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    Looking at Liza's last competition, where she won nationals:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sperXAIYAU

    First of all, she looked really sick out there, and I was hoping that she would go home, take a warm bath, drink hot cocoa, and go to sleep.
    But she's a fighter, she gutted it out, and finally became Russia's champ, YAY!

    In some ways, given her condition of course, it looked a little perfunctory, like she was going through the motions, just to survive. But one thing is for sure- her technique by now, honed by Mishin, is rock solid, dead rock solid. I mean, looked at her lutzes, and her double axels, where she doesn't pull through with her arms, but drives through with pure power from her hips.
    I don't think she needs a triple axel- her PCS will rise, her ice coverage will improve, but she has those beautiful jumps, esp. those lutzes. And as Wallylutz pointed out in his analysis (can't remember the thread), a girl with solid lutzes has big advantages over those who don't. With all the big players in Sochi ( I thought she had a great chance, but now prolly Yuna, Caro, Mao, Ash, have better chances), going for a triple axel may still be a risk, because it might divert needed attention and energy from other aspects of her skating, like her spins, for example. Liza doesn't have great layback, never points her foot, has no bielmann, but has good variety and interesting positions. These can be worked on and improved. But that triple axel risk, esp. now that her body has changed, may be more like a gamble. I think her best chance is to be like Yuna- try to get as high consistency and hit rate on those pristine jumps as possible, while improving all other aspects of her skating. The judges can't ignore that, they'd be crazy.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I hope she performs well at euros and worlds and that her pcs goes up to where it was last season and the jumps are also good and the sp goes well.



    The only video proof of that is so old now! I can't even remember a practice report from one of her comps that indicated any attempts. Have there been?
    Yes, at the YOG last year: I read somewhere that she was attempting it but she wasn't ready to show it in competition, but I don't remember where...

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    With Julia though, it seems that the way she jumps (little height, fast rotation) requires that she remain tiny and slender. Liza has also grown but her jumps were always bigger so she really didn't have to change her technique much.
    Yes this is what I worry about. Julia is still quite short at the age of 14, she is listed as 158 cm, but in pictures from TEB, Ashley who is a legitimate 160 cm looked quite a bit taller than Julia (in the vicinity of 7-10 cm, not 2 cm). Julia also has very small feet, so I doubt she grows to be very tall. This could be a good or bad thing, depending on if her body shape changes a lot or if she changes only slightly and becomes a woman with a petite and girlish figure. The asian girls are often able to survive puberty without putting on a lot of weight, but for those of European descent, it is tougher. Perhaps Julia has the genetics of someone like Sasha or Tara, and will be able to remain petite and slender as a woman, but at 14 it is just too early to tell. Liza and Adelina were also very thin at 14, and now they both have grown into much more sturdy, muscular figures, and they had much bigger jumps to begin with compared to Julia which has helped. Perhaps she won't even encounter the worst of the puberty adjustment until after Sochi, but there is a good chance it hits right around Sochi, which if that's the case I worried about continued injuries or struggles with jumps.

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