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Thread: Most powerful federation?

  1. #136
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    "Miss what he is saying" refers to the previous sentence not the next one which is just a continuous line of thought coming from Inman talking about what plushenko said about having no transitions because he focuses on jumps. Inman should have been talking about what judges do to mark transitions in total not just before jumps. Plushenko does not do nothing in between elements. Inman and people are saying he does nothing but plushenko was talking about transitions and jumps. Transitions into jumps. By the fact is that Inman decided to target plushenko because he does not match his and his skating does not focus on transitions before imps as how the transitions mark should be judged almost completely.

  2. #137
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    Clearly we disagree on how to interpret what Inman meant by "miss what he was saying." We can't really be sure what he meant because we weren't in his head and we don't have the full context for that statement.

    However, one of the articles that actually quoted Inman's e-mail specifically connected the "miss what he's saying" to the line that followed it by leaving out the one preceding:
    In his e-mail to judges and officials, Inman said that while Plushenko admitted performing no transitions "the judges seem to miss what he is saying. We as judges should think about what we saw before putting that mark down."
    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/i...s-olympic.html

    Inman did try to clarify his intentions, but either he wasn't specific enough in his comments or the reporter edited out the specificity:

    "All I was doing was in a private e-mail was say look at this, he (Plushenko) says he doesn't do this and none of us see this," Inman said. "All I want is a fair playing field."
    Still, why refuse to take him at his word?


    but plushenko was talking about transitions and jumps. Transitions into jumps.
    Where did he say anything specifically about transitions into jumps?

    ...we did exactly the same transitions on the ice. In fact, we don't have any transitions because we focus on jumps.
    Is there some other quote out there somewhere else that uses the words "into jumps"? Otherwise I can't see where you're getting that interpretation from.

    Plushenko does not do nothing in between elements.
    And yes, that's true, there was more than "none." I'm sure Plushenko was exaggerating for effect when he used that word.

  3. #138
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    I think you can prompt judges to mark correctly any time of the olympiad, you can send them 1000 mails a day and you can still discuss the scoring system and its flaws in gazillion ways other than giving as an example the words or the skating of an X, Y, Z skater who is still competing 3 weeks before Olympics.

    Cop was old enough by Vancouver for judges to know what are transitions for, did they really need a reminder?

    It is like teaching at school and saying to other teachers, you 'd better mark your students right and not give marks like the ones you gave to little Antony who is bad at math.

  4. #139
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    THE MOST POWERFUL FEDERATION FOR NOW AND FOR SOME TIME TO COME WILL BE RUSSIA. They control many federations and some that the common fan dont even think about. They control all the votes and judges for all former soviet countries as expected, but they also control, Isr, Pol, Solvak, Croatia, Serbia and more. Watch a japan judge on a panel, usually with Russia and China is also a suppporter. NOw every once and a whle they have to give a bit but never at the big times. Us and canada are lost, they even fight each other without a solid friend they can count on. By Sochi Rusia
    will have a dance, lady and pair medal (cant do anything about the men) and by 2018 watch out, they will have many medals of all colors.

  5. #140
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    I think the context of Plushenko's remarks (at least according to the Absolute Skating interview) was not so much that judges are not scoring the transitions mark according to the published criteria (which is what Joe Inman is complaining about).

    Plushenko, rather, was responding to a question about "then" versus "now," which he interpreted as meaning before and after the CoP.

    "It’s hard because the scoring system has changed since then and the Code of Points still has its flaws. If the judges want someone to place high, they can arrange it. Like in Tallinn, Brian Joubert got more points for his transitions than me, although we did exactly the same transitions on the ice."
    The rest of Plushenko's remarks I took to be sort of turning it into a joke. Like, ha ha, neither Joubert nor I bother with transitions -- we're he-man jumpers! But the judges wanted Joubert to win so they accomplished this by giving him higher transitions marks.

    I think Joe Inman shifted the emphasis. Plushenko's point (if he was being serious at all) was that one of the flaws if the CoP was that it had these meaningless categories that the judges can fill in any which way to determine a winner.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladz123 View Post
    (Russia) will have a dance, lady and pair medal (cant do anything about the men)..
    Evgeny Plushenko completes the Olympic grand slam by grabbing bronze, to go with silver and gold.

  7. #142
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    Plushenko may have been joking and exaggerating but there was Inman seemingly ready to pounce because he was integral in putting him the example of bad judging video and sent that email right before the Olympics. And he was the only one in the top 20 to get two 5.0 in transitions in the sp in Vancouver! No other judge either at cup of Russia or euros gave him that mark. Inman by spreading the "I do no transitions" line to all judges was trying to get him scored zero! Plushenko said no transitions focus on jumps but what about step sequences and spins? And Inman give weir 3 so that may have been part of the email to! It's not considered a big scandal so all the facts about what Inman was doing are not out. Now even though plushenkos skating has not changed Much he is all " I am making transitions so much harder!"

  8. #143
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    This thread assumed I had some sinister hate Canada, and questioned the ladies results as my inner motive. Honestly, questions are all i have and this was a simple one-who has the power now and why. But it is very interesting that it stayed on topic as it evolved.

    I would be upset for Akiko maybe were I not far more into the storm in my state and seeing NJ and NY under water. I'm doing what I can, and skating is a diversion with Sandy having devastated us here in Eastern seaboard. My area was lucky this time, but we get huge winter storms where I live at elevation.

    ..... But imo, Akiko deserved the gold, but I just love Canada's new star. Who could possibly hate Canada? It is a great country and our neighbor. We regard Canada as the bckyard, lol. Seriously, Id rather live there, since I live in a snow state, too. i find it silly when posters use the haters word-really? over a sport?

    I think Suzuki is one of the top 3 ladies in the world, and she will I hope be WC this year. Osmond is precious. I think she is quite different from sophisticated, mature Joannie. Home cooking? I think so. But as a judge, one gets excited too like a fan to see a talent emerge, and they have their own taste. Osmond offers a lot as a skater. SC seems to embrace new talent-Liza last year. Akiko has been an underdog, and I would love to see her win WC and be part of the Japanese team at Sochi. She is desrving and works so hard to make it look effortless. All the Japanese skaters have these deep knees-they seem to have the best technique in the world.

    For me, the gold could have been hers, but wuzrobbed does not fit. That became the discussion. I don't think Osmond jumps like Yuna, but I like everything else she does in between as much if not more.So I did not find her scores outrageous. Therer is such a wide spread from event to event. The scoring unless blatant, is more aggravating to me. I think it must be simplified for the fans, general fans who must re energize this sport before it dies in the west except for an elite few with money. I was amazed to see so many empty seats at Skate Canada!? What is THAT all about please? The girl is enchanting, Like Goldie, she is a teen star is a sea of veterans they are sick of. If I were a judge, I'd pray for new faces. They are human and they want to see new stars in the sport, so they boost young ones to give confidence. In the end, don't we want thrilling performances? I think the judges are mostly honest and many were skaters, so they know what it takes. When I started this thread I HONESTLY wondered who posts here incognito and what we might learn about inner machinations of power. I never read articles re Feds so any info is news for me.

    I suspect the Feds like MM said are more concerned with themselves. The inside relationships that determine who is in or out. But it became a SC ladies thread.

    Question: Are you all content with Voir's skating? Did they deserve that gold? Good Ice dance judging? I'm just curious as I thought their programs/skating/mistakes were not so great.

    Home turf advantage again? Ice dance to me is impossible. Top 4,5,6 even teams seem so comparable. It's about taste, it seems. I will say that D/W should have been 2012 WC. Their FD was incredible. They were like lightening on skates. Really, no nationalism as I'm a big Voir fan. Vancouver was magical. Perfection on ice. Canada is likely no more nationalistic than any other Fed. I have seen some bad behavior from the Russian skating elite and I love their skaters, culture,art, the good people of this country so maligned. I do expect to see some fireworks in the Skating at Sochi. It is almost as if some people have a score they feel they must settle re Irina and Plush because they truly felyt robbed.

    Now Russia can challenge for podium in all 4 disciplines were the Olys even held this year even. Podium yes, the gold, maybe 1 or 2. The talent is there. Let us hope they are gracious hosts as the Olympics do matter very much to them. I wish I could visit, speak the language, and understand the bravura and pride of this amazing people. I don't mean to say the bloc is more corrupt, as some have said, but the nationalism is strong. We americans all came from somewhere else and we often have pride in where our parents came from or grandparents. I know I do. I think of myself as American, but my heritage is Irish and Canadian French. I feel pride visiting both places. So we are mutts here most of us. I wish the world understood we are very diverse melting pot with people from everywhere in even our small cities.

    I am happy to see skaters from anywhere excel. But there is a part of me that is very thrilled to see Wagner skate with joy and confidene and win. And Gracie Gold looks like an ice princess-our answer to Italy's Kostner. It is normal to root for one's own. It is nice to see North American and European skaters compete with the formidable Asian singles for a change. Still, I love Akiko because she is enchanting, talented and an over comer. I could not feel bad to see her win it all. We are all tied here by our love of music/beauty/dance on ice. Otherwise we'd be on some speed skating board. I have way more questions than answers. When one starts a thread, it is a risk. I honestly did not want this to be an attack Canada or Osmond thread. I love Canada and her incredible skaters to the max. Only Canada could produce a Toller Cranston and a Kurt Browning-simply the best. I wish Osmond great, good fortune even if she beats our wunderkind and she surely did. Sad sigh. (
    Last edited by skateluvr; 11-03-2012 at 12:22 AM.

  9. #144
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    Most powerful federation?

    I also noticed many seats at SCI Windsor were empty. I am guessing it may be related to the host city. At SCI Kingston and Mississauga, most seats were filled (except near rink end where the view was poorest).

    At CSOI after V/M Vancouver win, someone at FSU posted they had attended the shows in Toronto, Hamilton, and London. It was reported the audience in Toronto was the least enthusiastic. London was enthusiastic (although not surprising since V/M are from there). Likewise, Hamilton was very enthusiastic, offering cheering and standing ovations (I was there). Probably the reason CSOI is typically filmed for TV at that location (not because I was there ). I can't explain why figure skating would be more popular in one city over another, but I must wonder if Skate Canada would be eager to return to a city or area if it demonstrates poor attendance.
    Last edited by rvi5; 11-03-2012 at 12:15 PM.

  10. #145
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    Most powerful federation?

    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Question: Are you all content with Voir's skating? Did they deserve that gold? Good Ice dance judging? I'm just curious as I thought their programs/skating/mistakes were not so great.

    Home turf advantage again?
    I doubt it. The judges didn't hesitate to ding them in the SP (C/L almost beat them). I expected they would pull ahead after the long, provided they didn't make fatally huge mistakes. People have different tastes. As do the judges, as you already mentioned. There are many fans who think the FD (once perfected) will be one of their best. During the CTV Gala commentary (showing replay clips of the FD), Tracy Wilson said...

    "...and this is a side of Tessa and Scott, that we have never seen before."

    "...a startling performance. Not perfect by any means, but one of the most avant-garde, technically difficult, artistically superior free dances that I have ever seen."

    Some may disagree, but everyone has their own opinions for whatever reasons.
    Last edited by rvi5; 11-03-2012 at 12:55 PM.

  11. #146
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    For the upcoming Olympics:

    1. Russia
    2. Canada
    3. Japan
    4. USA
    5. France
    6. China

  12. #147
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    I think you have nailed what I perceive Blades of Passion. I wonder at the budget of each Fed and how the monies are allocated? Clearly Russia is pushing in everyway to 'take back the podium.' in Sochi. I know SLC was almost a shambles and it took Mitt to fix it with his team (not an endorsement here, BTW). Russia is clearly spending a lot of money and begged many coaches (like marina/igor) to come home to Mother Russia after Vancouver. Interesting - who other than Morozov was listening? Money had to be there. Did he in fact have to dump Ando as she was Japanese and a threat to Russia's ladies? Fact or fiction?

  13. #148
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    Interesting also if you see by results/performance of the skaters if it influences a federation, power from the judges perspective

    most powerful by results/medals

    1 Japan
    2 Russia
    3 Canada
    4 USA
    5 Italy
    6 China/Germany

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladz123 View Post
    THE MOST POWERFUL FEDERATION FOR NOW AND FOR SOME TIME TO COME WILL BE RUSSIA. They control many federations and some that the common fan dont even think about. They control all the votes and judges for all former soviet countries as expected, but they also control, Isr, Pol, Solvak, Croatia, Serbia and more. Watch a japan judge on a panel, usually with Russia and China is also a suppporter. NOw every once and a whle they have to give a bit but never at the big times. Us and canada are lost, they even fight each other without a solid friend they can count on. By Sochi Rusia
    will have a dance, lady and pair medal (cant do anything about the men) and by 2018 watch out, they will have many medals of all colors.
    You are wrong. I'm from the old eastern block. Russia hasn't influence on every country of eastern block or former soviet countries!
    Poland<>Russian historical reasons, the polish people don't like Russia, and I was very diplomatic
    Slovakia, Chech Republic, Hungary don't like Russia, do you remember the raketa program of Nato, against Russia, some years ago?
    Romania has never been Soviet-friendly, but was communist
    Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia are against the Russian influence. In Estonia was an affray against the russian ethnic citizens, were some dead, some years ago.
    Croatia- isn't Russia- friendly, Russia supported Serbia in South -Slav war in 90's years.
    Russia has influence on Serbia, maybe on Kazahstan,Uzbeghistan...
    Last edited by plushyfan; 11-05-2012 at 01:38 AM.

  15. #150
    Tripping on the Podium
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    I think that plushyfan is right. Fortunately or unfortunately, Russia doesn't have as much influence with the Eastern Bloc as the western countries people believe.

    Interesting to read. Russians think Canadian fed is the strongest, but the western countries' people think Russia is still one of the strongest
    Last edited by Evgenia; 11-04-2012 at 02:45 PM.

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