Most powerful federation? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Most powerful federation?

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
My impression is that the majority of politicking that goes on in the ISU is not about skaters at all. It is about jockeying for appointments to prestigious posts and committee assignments within the organization.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I thought with COP a lot of that jockeyng and power struggles was made a lot harder - okay maybe wishful thinking. I do think these boards are a bit "scarey" - I think the power of feds are often "made up" by nationalistic parties or fans. I don't think Skate Canada for example has had time to really politick Osmond despite some sahying there should be a review.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Joannie went through proper procedures, by asking and receiving permission.

The permission you take for this kind of situation is from your federation who then send the appropriate papers to ISU. Plushenko had also taken permission and the ok from his Fed, and then RF took it back. It was more of their bad relationship with eachother at that time than not going through the procedures.
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
that's why i admire yuna even more.. winning a world title and ogm without a strong/powerful fed to back her up.. and to think she had to do it from the basic..

sorry i can't resist... :laugh::laugh:
 

glam

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
I don't think it was a coincidence that Chan lost to Takahashi at WTT 2012 in Japan and was dumped by the judges in Japan Open this season. The Japanese federation definitely wants Chan's superiority to stop. I think that is also the reason why neither Takahashi nor Hanyu competed at SC. The Japanese federation sent Oda, their current 4th because they knew that Chan would be placed inhead of the Japanese men, no matter what. And if Orser wasn't Canadian, Javier woudn't have won. I think there is hostility bw the Japanese and Canadian federations. That is one of the reasons, why Osmond won over the better Japanese ladies. It will be interesting who wants to compete in Skate Canada in the future anymore...
 

glam

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
that's why i admire yuna even more.. winning a world title and ogm without a strong/powerful fed to back her up.. and to think she had to do it from the basic..

sorry i can't resist... :laugh::laugh:

Yuna is one of the world's richest female athletes and her sponsors mean a lot of money to the ISU.
 

rvi5

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
The permission you take for this kind of situation is from your federation who then send the appropriate papers to ISU. Plushenko had also taken permission and the ok from his Fed, and then RF took it back. It was more of their bad relationship with eachother at that time than not going through the procedures.

Regardless of how they got there, in the end he still did the shows without the necessary permissions. Joannie wasn't banned because she had permission.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
I don't think it was a coincidence that Chan lost to Takahashi at WTT 2012 in Japan and was dumped by the judges in Japan Open this season. The Japanese federation definitely wants Chan's superiority to stop. I think that is also the reason why neither Takahashi nor Hanyu competed at SC. The Japanese federation sent Oda, their current 4th because they knew that Chan would be placed inhead of the Japanese men, no matter what. And if Orser wasn't Canadian, Javier woudn't have won. I think there is hostility bw the Japanese and Canadian federations. That is one of the reasons, why Osmond won over the better Japanese ladies. It will be interesting who wants to compete in Skate Canada in the future anymore...
Chan has every advantage on his side when it comes to federation support. If you are seriously suggesting that Orser + the Spanish fed are more powerful than Skate Canada, in Canada no less... :rofl:.

The reason that neither Takahashi nor Hanyu were sent to SC is that they are both in the same seeding group from Worlds as Chan. TEB and NHK traded seeds, it seems - normally you have one medalist and one 4-6 finisher at each GP, but NHK has two medalists while TEB has two 4-6 guys because you had two skaters from the same country in each group. But there is no way on earth that Skate Canada would pick another medalist over Patrick Chan. It has nothing to do with the JSF or its tactics. The other seeded entry (from the 4-6 finishers) at SC was Amodio, who obviously wasn't at his best. Skate Canada as the host basically got to call the shots beyond that (although there is some trading between the feds, and various machinations); they could have gone with Kozuka, but Oda was a safer choice for them.

Of course the JSF would rather see its skaters win over Chan. Duh.
 
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naan

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Yuna is one of the world's richest female athletes and her sponsors mean a lot of money to the ISU.
She's become rich after she won GP events and Worlds. Are there any Korean sponsors support ISU? Just curious. Heard that 60-70% of ISU events sponsors are Japanese companies.
I think USA and Russia were the strongest federation in political, and most of ISU money came from USA. But now, Japan is in that role. So overall, USA-Japan-Russia-Canada.
 
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lowtherlore

Guest
Yuna is one of the world's richest female athletes and her sponsors mean a lot of money to the ISU.

Not true. None of Yu-Na endorsed companies sponsor ISU events, except for Samsung who had sponsored CoC for some years in the past (it no longer does, AFAIK). Other than pushing its own PR campaign in a certain market, a sponsor for a specific event does not have direct politicking power to promote its compatriot federation or athletes.

Korean federation? I bet it’s the weakest of them all that produced a world or Olympic champion. They couldn’t eke out a win for Yu-Na at the 2008 Worlds, at the 2011 Worlds, or even at the 2008 GPF in Korea (her only international competition at home to date, junior or senior), where at each event the call could have gone either way.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Korean federation? I bet it’s the weakest of them all that produced a world or Olympic champion. They couldn’t eke out a win for Yu-Na at the 2008 Worlds, at the 2011 Worlds, or even at the 2008 GPF in Korea (her only international competition at home to date, junior or senior), where at each event the call could have gone either way.

I think this is true, but I also think that the coaches play a big part of lobbying for the skaters as well. Most of the time the right skater wins despite politics, and I think this was the case in 2008 & 2011 WC and the 2010 Olys.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Korean federation? I bet it’s the weakest of them all that produced a world or Olympic champion. They couldn’t eke out a win for Yu-Na at the 2008 Worlds, at the 2011 Worlds, or even at the 2008 GPF in Korea (her only international competition at home to date, junior or senior), where at each event the call could have gone either way.
I'm actually not sure this is true, as there have been a number of World champions who were not from big federations. In the past decade, they include Stephane Lambiel, DenStavs, and Savchenko & Szolkowy (and the latter did not have much support from their federation in their earlier years, due to Steuer's past). I don't know that the Chinese fed was all that powerful in Lulu's day, either - as some of her results would attest. Actually, they'e still not that strong.

What makes Kim unique is that she was such a pioneering skater for her country (though the same could be said for Chen, too).

If Fernandez can achieve top results for Spain, and it looks like he is on the way to accomplishing this, I think that could provide a serious boost to Spanish skating.
 
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lowtherlore

Guest
I think this is true, but I also think that the coaches play a big part of lobbying for the skaters as well. Most of the time the right skater wins despite politics, and I think this was the case in 2008 & 2011 WC and the 2010 Olys.

No doubt coaches can play a big role in moulding a winner. And federations and coaches can have influence by reputation and inner-circle relationship on the CLOSELY contended matches. But, most of Yu-Na’s wins, junior or senior, were decisive. I don’t think any of her wins came from lobbying, either by her coach or by her federation. And I don't think her coaches, compatriot or foreign, or her federation, have been much of a factor in helping her win closely decided competitions by lobbying, either.

I agree with your saying that most of the times the right skater wins despite politics. But we all know that there are as many instances where some skaters win with the help of politics -- especially when the stakes are major, which is especially bad for the sport because the major events are exposed to more viewers and potential new fans, who could turn indifferent. We have witnessed, with various sports, the adverse effects match/score fixing controversies can have on the sport in the long run.
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
I think Glam is misunderstanding the difference between personal endorsements Yuna has, and ISU sponsorships which coincidentally Japanese federation shares many of them with.:popcorn:
 
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drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
No doubt coaches can play a big role in moulding a winner. And federations and coaches can have influence by reputation and inner-circle relationship on the CLOSELY contended matches. But, most of Yu-Na’s wins, junior or senior, were decisive. I don’t think any of her wins came from lobbying, either by her coach or by her federation. And I don't think her coaches, compatriot or foreign, or her federation, have been much of a factor in helping her win closely decided competitions by lobbying, either.

I agree with your saying that most of the times the right skater wins despite politics. But we all know that there are as many instances where some skaters win with the help of politics -- especially when the stakes are major, which is especially bad for the sport because the major events are exposed to more viewers and potential new fans, who could turn indifferent. We have witnessed, with various sports, the adverse effects match/score fixing controversies can have on the sport in the long run.

I think you see more of an effect of politicking just outside the medals, where the placements are important for international assignments but people don't make much of a fuss because it doesn't impact the top of the leader board. This hurt skaters like Malinina and Czacko because they often finished behind skaters from bigger countries, even when they skated well.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
by media/coverage, the US is still the best but the problem is the viewers aren't there as it used to be thus
this sort of trying of revival back to the good old golden years' of US FS

I'd rank:

Canada
Japan
Russia
USA
Italy - Chinquanta :laugh:
China/Korea
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I do find it intriguing that people think because Orser's Canadian he's really high ranked in the Canadian hierarchy. The only Canadian he coached was Cynthia Phaneuf and that was for a couple months (Nationals, 4CC, WTT). He's fairly international. If Orser is really THAT good at politicking, though, it would be an impressive feat.

Otherwise, what Buttercup said.
 

EricRohmer

On the Ice
Joined
May 31, 2010
Japan = USA = Canada = Russia > EU >>> China,Korea,Kazakhstan,Australia etc.

In a grand frame, equilibrium of power between 4 federations.
EU : european no.1~2 bonus
 
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