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Thread: Carmen Overload

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I think the music helps some of the ladies come out of their shell a bit, because they are forced to take on a familiar character to sell the program. I haven't seen a Carmen I've enjoyed as much as Witt's, although Michelle's Fate of Carmen SP comes close.
    Michelle's 1999 short program was utterly unique in that it did not use the music of Bizet at all. Lori Nichol pieced together material from the "Carmen Suite" by then-avant garde Russian composer Rodio Shchedrin, scored for strings and percussion (mainly percussion ); from the Carmen Fantasy, adapted by Nichol's favorite violinist, Nadia Salermo-Sonnenberg, from the score of the 1947 Joan Crawford movie Humoresque by Franz Waxman; and from the score of the 1983 movie "Carmen" which featured a dual story line of two modern people playing out the Carmen tragedy in real life.

    Michelle did not try to portray a character of tell a story at all. Unless the story was, awesome athlete tries to win national championship.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think Lpri Nichol deserves a lot of credit, too. Nichol maintained a very large music library and worked closely with a music consultant, Lenore Kay.
    Perhaps she did some of the musical selections, but I know that Frank is a classical music buff and has an extensive musical library himself. Over the years, I spoke with him many times on his choices of music for Kwan and how he found them.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    Perhaps she did some of the musical selections, but I know that Frank is a classical music buff and has an extensive musical library himself. Over the years, I spoke with him many times on his choices of music for Kwan and how he found them.
    Some of Michelle Kwan's music choices under Carroll and Nichol have been AMAZING (e.g. blending together pieces from Gliere and Massenet in Dream of Desdemona), but what happened after? Evan Lysacek's programs under Carroll and Nichol have been nothing but an endless parade of figure skating's most over-used music, and a lot of Mirai's music when she was with Carroll has been less-than-inspiring as well.

  4. #34
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    I have no problem with Carmen as long as we keep getting the quality interpretation like Scott and Tessa's latest reincarnation. That despite the baggage of the most overused music ever, they still strives to be authentic, original and truthful to the essence of the music. To able to distinct itself as being a definitive version. Quite Brilliant!

    Besides, this is figure skating. It is practically a rite of passage, so why break tradition

    (Everything else is Judge's problem Maybe if they should give GOE (grade on expectations) bonuses to award risks, -3 for terrible boring version, no difference on mute, + 3 for great I want to see it again version.)
    Last edited by os168; 10-30-2012 at 12:02 AM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I think the music helps some of the ladies come out of their shell a bit, because they are forced to take on a familiar character to sell the program
    "Marina Zoueva, Virtue and Moir’s coach, saw this program as a way to coax a leading lady out of the shadows. In the past, commentary from judges suggested Moir, the 25-year-old from Ilderton, was so much more the visible partner."
    http://www.lfpress.com/2012/10/28/sy...-image-is-gone

    (Seemed relevant to repeat this quote from my post in the Ice dance and Carmen thread. Count me among the fans of Virtue/Moir's program.)

  6. #36
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    Carmen is powerful music but I am not sure other than a lot of blabbing that really C and L or V and M really have added much to the many adaptations of Carmen. I mean this is the second coming of the battle of the Carmens. (Witt v Thomas) And as many critics have said the best Carmen was not even Witt but Bestmianova or Krylova.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Carmen is powerful music but I am not sure other than a lot of blabbing that really C and L or V and M really have added much to the many adaptations of Carmen. I mean this is the second coming of the battle of the Carmens. (Witt v Thomas) And as many critics have said the best Carmen was not even Witt but Bestmianova or Krylova.
    Yes, i agree. But it's a modern Carmen. I love V/M's Carmen. Everything changes. The most important thing is the passion in the Carmen. And they were able to show us that feelings, despite they had difficult choreography, and moviements.

  8. #38
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    For me, Carmen is totally overused piece.
    That said, the music itself is very powerful and inspiring, so if you're going to skate to Carmen, you really have to know your stuff.
    I liked C/L version, but LOVED V/M interpretation. Now I know it's still possible to do carmen that I really can enjoy.

    But if you want to talk about modern take on carmen, this might be it :
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTJECVd-GCM

  9. #39
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    There are so many classical pieces of music that are skatable and yet dont get any attention and use.

    Carmen is amazing opera. the music is so famous. I always think of Krylova&Ovssianikov free dance to be sure that there can always be something more to it but the well known storytelling. Same goes for their Waltz Masquerade. Very interesting interpretation with slow motion when the music gets more tempo.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Yes, i agree. But it's a modern Carmen. I love V/M's Carmen. Everything changes. The most important thing is the passion in the Carmen. And they were able to show us that feelings, despite they had difficult choreography, and moviements.
    A Fine Romance?

    Virtue and Moir attempted a “new” interpretation of Carmen (an oxymoron).

    I like the attempt at skating this warhorse in a modern, dare I say “voidy” way but to my eyes it falls flat both technically and artistically.

    The lifts ended up looking awkward and borderline pornographic. There’s too much side by side skating, too many hand to hand holds, the dance spins look slow and labored, the gap between the two skaters looks much wider than ever before…technically it’s a step backward for Virtue and Moir who used to skate with so much more technical difficulty than we currently see in (this version of) Carmen.

    I appreciate that they were going for something edgy and modern but the chemistry and connection between the two skaters seems greatly diminished in this Carmen program.

    Carmen without romance, without passion, without fire or strong connection comes off looking…odd.

    Truth be told, Carmen has never worked as an ice dance for me.

    The Duchesnays did edgy and modern so, so, so much better (and they had the good sense to avoid Carmen completely).

  11. #41
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by layman View Post
    Truth be told, Carmen has never worked as an ice dance for me.
    I think you've hit on the problem, Carmen is not a pas de deux.

    The title of the opera is not "Carmen and her boyfriends"

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by layman View Post
    A Fine Romance?

    Virtue and Moir attempted a “new” interpretation of Carmen (an oxymoron).

    I like the attempt at skating this warhorse in a modern, dare I say “voidy” way but to my eyes it falls flat both technically and artistically.

    The lifts ended up looking awkward and borderline pornographic. There’s too much side by side skating, too many hand to hand holds, the dance spins look slow and labored, the gap between the two skaters looks much wider than ever before…technically it’s a step backward for Virtue and Moir who used to skate with so much more technical difficulty than we currently see in (this version of) Carmen.

    I appreciate that they were going for something edgy and modern but the chemistry and connection between the two skaters seems greatly diminished in this Carmen program.

    Carmen without romance, without passion, without fire or strong connection comes off looking…odd.

    Truth be told, Carmen has never worked as an ice dance for me.

    The Duchesnays did edgy and modern so, so, so much better (and they had the good sense to avoid Carmen completely).
    Well...the theatre/stage is full of oxymorons. What do you call all the Shakespeare plays and its various manifestations through out the world in all sort of medium? I think the big question is what is the difference between a masterful rendition of a classic vs an amateur version? I'd say creative decision, thoughtful process are key components of the criteria.

    I have a complete different reading of the story of Carmen from you. It was never about romance or passion for me, but about dangerous seduction, manipulation of emotions, dark obsession, sexual conquests, cold jealousy, gender politics, unhealthy relationships where one always strives to domineer another but at the same time at the mercy of the other (succinctly summarized in the final pose). It is the push and pull of lust, obsession, doom and death, the darker side of 'love'. Carmen has always been a profoundly dark story for me, but has been primed too much in the past with the romanticism and the fetish of the period/ exotic scenery / political background where it became more about the glam, the props/the kit, the ambiance of theater/performance environment, where its core concepts has been watered down following the culture of commercialization of Carmen. It is the equivalent of performers putting on their own Halloween costume playing 'trick or treats' doing a superficial reading of the story without getting into the honesty, the truth of the material; the heart, the blood, the guts of Carmen in its bare essence, its interdependence.

    The main difference between C/L's version is they are so focused on its literal story telling, scene changes, it missed out the big picture. Their interpretation is skin deep and conforms to a theatrical version of Carmen the judges probably expect. Tessa and Scott's version on the other hand cut away the trimming, the fats and got to the heart of the emotions, exploit the fundamental concepts and realized it in a new form of a dance. It is not edgy for edgy's sake, but it with purpose and meaning.

    A master performer distinct itself by the choice he/she makes. The program picked the purity of emotion and essence of Carmen and revitalized into the 21st century. In doing so, they made it uniquely their own. It is a testament to their growth and journey as a leader of this sport to able to take risks pushing for this direction. Hopefully they will be rewarded by the judges at worlds. It challenges the audience and the judge's perception of the material, but I think in the long run, this is a worthy effort that can distinct themselves from the pack. One can certainly scrutinize over techniques and the execution, but the elite art direction and the creative decisions of this program is superb (comparatively to say D/W Notre Dame). I love it!
    Last edited by os168; 10-30-2012 at 11:08 AM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Well...the theatre/stage is full of oxymorons.
    Yeah, right, here she kills him (see at around 8 minute): www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q800XvZNe5g Pure art!

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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Yeah, right, here she kills him (see at around 8 minute): www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q800XvZNe5g Pure art!
    And that killed me!

  15. #45
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    A master performer distinct itself by the choice he/she makes. The program picked the purity of emotion and essence of Carmen and revitalized into the 21st century. In doing so, they made it uniquely their own. It is a testament to their growth and journey as a leader of this sport to able to take risks pushing for this direction. Hopefully they will be rewarded by the judges at worlds. It challenges the audience and the judge's perception of the material, but I think in the long run, this is a worthy effort that can distinct themselves from the pack. One can certainly scrutinize over techniques and the execution, but the elite art direction and the creative decisions of this program is superb (comparatively to say D/W Notre Dame). I love it!
    Agree

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