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Thread: Different 3-3s

  1. #31
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Yep. But for some reason, they just count it as a 1Lo on the protocol sheets. Anyone know why?
    because then it's not a sequence. There's a rule SPECIFICALLY stating that a 1/2 loop connecting two other listed jumps will be considered a 1Lo on the protocol and will be scored as such and NO sequence deduction will be applied.

  2. #32
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowdive View Post
    I want to see a skater do a 3T or 3Z-2A combo (or is that humanly possible)?
    No, it will always be a sequence and scored as such - a step must be taken to enter the 2A which makes it a sequence.

  3. #33
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    3Lz as the second jump: only if someone can jump consistently in both directions. The only skater I know who could do it (at least in practice) was Rohene Ward. His CW 3Lz was not "pretty" enough and he was concerned he might get minus GOE and/or <<...

  4. #34
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raress View Post
    Shelepen landed also 3F-3T-2lo and 3F-3Lo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3Qb7ARRB1A 3F-3T-2Lo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a6fR7ouw-s 3F-3Lo
    Really interesting! So, a total of 6 different 3-3s from Polina!

  5. #35
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    We have seen single walley-triple lutz combinations with the walley rotating in the opposite direction.

    It doesn't count as a combination under IJS because the walley is a nonlisted jump not in the scale of values, specifically so it will just count as a transition and not fill a jump box with a single jump when used in isolation.

    Also the resettling on the landing edge usually takes so long before the lutz takeoff that the rhythm is not at all like a typical jump combination.

    However, if there were a desire to encourage opposite direction jumps, combinations with more rotations in the last rather than first jump, and/or combinations with jumps other than toe loop and loop at the end, there could be ways to rewrite the rules so that opposite-rotating single jump followed by normal double or triple lutz would be worth more than a double or triple lutz with a double toe loop or loop on the end. E.g., a bonus for combinations that rotate both directions and a bonus to the base value of the second jump in a combo.

    And I expect that if opposite single-normal lutz combos became popular, a few skaters who are able to rotate both ways better than most would develop the skills to do opposite double something-normal triple lutz combinations. Triple-triple in opposite directions is likely too difficult to foresee in upcoming decades.

    Again, I've seen no evidence that the ISU is interested in promoting that kind of element. But I think it wouldn't be a bad idea for them to consider it.

  6. #36
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    So, this is the summary of what I've learned with this thread (thx everyone!):
    6 DIFFERENT 3-3s: Polina Shelepen (3T+3T, 3S+3T, 3F+3T, 3F+3Lo, 3Lz+3T, 3Lz+3Lo)
    5 DIFFERENT 3-3s: none
    4 DIFFERENT 3-3s: Surya Bonaly (3T+3T, 3S+3T, 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T); Elena Radionova (3Lz+3T, 3Lo+3T, 3S+3T and, according to AlexRus, 3T+3T)
    3 DIFFERENT 3-3s: Midori Ito (3T+3T, 3Lz+3T, 3A+3T (maybe 3Lo+3Lo, if you remember when please post the link)); Irina Slutskaya (3S+3Lo, 3T+3T, 3lz+3Lo); Shizuka Arakawa (3Lz+3T, 3S+3T, 3S+3Lo); Adelina Sotnikova (3T+3T, 3Lz+3T, 3Lz+3Lo); Carolina Kostner (3T+3T, 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T); Yu-Na Kim (3T+3T, 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T); Sarah Hughes (3T+3Lo, 3S+3Lo, 3Lo+3Lo).
    I didn't count the 3-jumps combos nor Liza, because she has never landed a clean 3T+3T in competition, just 3S+3T and 3Lz+3T (please correct me if I'm wrong...)!
    I've learned a lot of things...
    Last edited by FSGMT; 11-02-2012 at 12:51 PM.

  7. #37
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    So, this is the summary of what I've learned with this thread (thx everyone!):
    6 DIFFERENT 3-3s: Polina Shelepen (3T+3T, 3S+3T, 3F+3T, 3F+3Lo, 3Lz+3T, 3Lz+3Lo)
    5 DIFFERENT 3-3s: none
    4 DIFFERENT 3-3s: Surya Bonaly (3T+3T, 3S+3T, 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T); Elena Radionova (3Lz+3T, 3Lo+3T, 3S+3T and, according to AlexRus, 3T+3T)
    3 DIFFERENT 3-3s: Midori Ito (3T+3T, 3Lz+3T, 3A+3T (maybe 3Lo+3Lo, if you remember when please post the link)); Irina Slutskaya (3S+3Lo, 3T+3T, 3lz+3Lo); Shizuka Arakawa (3Lz+3T, 3S+3T, 3S+3Lo); Adelina Sotnikova (3T+3T, 3Lz+3T, 3Lz+3Lo); Carolina Kostner (3T+3T, 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T); Yu-Na Kim (3T+3T, 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T).
    I didn't count the 3-jumps combos nor Liza, because she has never landed a clean 3T+3T in competition, just 3S+3T and 3Lz+3T (please correct me if I'm wrong...)!
    I've learned a lot of things...
    Too bad that Polina Shelepen has been able to translate those six 3-3 into doing well at competitions. :( Hope she has a better season...

  8. #38
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    Would you include sequences of triple-half loop-triple?

    If so, add Tara Lipinski, who did 3S+3Lo, 3Lo+3Lo, and 3T+1Lo+3S?


    Oh, and IIRC Sarah Hughes did 3Lo+3Lo, 3S+3Lo, and 3T+3Lo at least once each.


    Whether they would have gotten full credit for rotation under IJS scrutiny is another question. But few 3Lo combinations would.
    Last edited by gkelly; 11-02-2012 at 11:29 AM.

  9. #39
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Would you include sequences of triple-half loop-triple?

    If so, add Tara Lipinski, who did 3S+3Lo, 3Lo+3Lo, and 3T+1Lo+3S?
    I think FSGMT said he wasn't counting 3-jump combos for some reason.

    If that counted, Gracie Gold would be on the last for three as well for her 3F-3T, 3Z-3T and 3F-1Lo-3S.

  10. #40
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Would you include sequences of triple-half loop-triple?

    If so, add Tara Lipinski, who did 3S+3Lo, 3Lo+3Lo, and 3T+1Lo+3S?


    Oh, and IIRC Sarah Hughes did 3Lo+3Lo, 3S+3Lo, and 3T+3Lo at least once each.


    Whether they would have gotten full credit for rotation under IJS scrutiny is another question. But few 3Lo combinations would.
    3Lo+3Lo? When?
    And, yes, I didn't count the 3-jumps combos because (for me, at least, as a skater) they are easier than "real" combos so they are not really 3-3 combinations but 3-3 sequences (now counted as combos, I know) and the list would have been too long!

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    3Lo+3Lo? When?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUBm8ziP0AM&t=1m43s

  12. #42
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    Carolina Kostner has landed 3 lutz-3 toe, 3 flip-3 toe, and 3toe-3toe in competiotions throughout her career.

  13. #43
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Thank you, I've added her in my list!
    Quote Originally Posted by daphna View Post
    Carolina Kostner has landed 3 lutz-3 toe, 3 flip-3 toe, and 3toe-3toe in competiotions throughout her career.
    Yes, I've already put her in the list!

  14. #44
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    Shizuka's done a few 3T-3T when she was younger.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...jVTphM3I#t=31s

  15. #45
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    I'm surprised Miki's not yet mentioned. She's THE jumper.
    3T-3T
    3T-3Loop
    3Sal-3Loop
    3F-3Loop
    3Lz-3Loop

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