because then it's not a sequence. There's a rule SPECIFICALLY stating that a 1/2 loop connecting two other listed jumps will be considered a 1Lo on the protocol and will be scored as such and NO sequence deduction will be applied.Originally Posted by Mrs. P
No, it will always be a sequence and scored as such - a step must be taken to enter the 2A which makes it a sequence.
3Lz as the second jump: only if someone can jump consistently in both directions. The only skater I know who could do it (at least in practice) was Rohene Ward. His CW 3Lz was not "pretty" enough and he was concerned he might get minus GOE and/or <<...
Really interesting! So, a total of 6 different 3-3s from Polina!
We have seen single walley-triple lutz combinations with the walley rotating in the opposite direction.
It doesn't count as a combination under IJS because the walley is a nonlisted jump not in the scale of values, specifically so it will just count as a transition and not fill a jump box with a single jump when used in isolation.
Also the resettling on the landing edge usually takes so long before the lutz takeoff that the rhythm is not at all like a typical jump combination.
However, if there were a desire to encourage opposite direction jumps, combinations with more rotations in the last rather than first jump, and/or combinations with jumps other than toe loop and loop at the end, there could be ways to rewrite the rules so that opposite-rotating single jump followed by normal double or triple lutz would be worth more than a double or triple lutz with a double toe loop or loop on the end. E.g., a bonus for combinations that rotate both directions and a bonus to the base value of the second jump in a combo.
And I expect that if opposite single-normal lutz combos became popular, a few skaters who are able to rotate both ways better than most would develop the skills to do opposite double something-normal triple lutz combinations. Triple-triple in opposite directions is likely too difficult to foresee in upcoming decades.
Again, I've seen no evidence that the ISU is interested in promoting that kind of element. But I think it wouldn't be a bad idea for them to consider it.
So, this is the summary of what I've learned with this thread (thx everyone!):
6 DIFFERENT 3-3s: Polina Shelepen (3T+3T, 3S+3T, 3F+3T, 3F+3Lo, 3Lz+3T, 3Lz+3Lo)
5 DIFFERENT 3-3s: none
4 DIFFERENT 3-3s: Surya Bonaly (3T+3T, 3S+3T, 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T); Elena Radionova (3Lz+3T, 3Lo+3T, 3S+3T and, according to AlexRus, 3T+3T)
3 DIFFERENT 3-3s: Midori Ito (3T+3T, 3Lz+3T, 3A+3T (maybe 3Lo+3Lo, if you remember when please post the link)); Irina Slutskaya (3S+3Lo, 3T+3T, 3lz+3Lo); Shizuka Arakawa (3Lz+3T, 3S+3T, 3S+3Lo); Adelina Sotnikova (3T+3T, 3Lz+3T, 3Lz+3Lo); Carolina Kostner (3T+3T, 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T); Yu-Na Kim (3T+3T, 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T); Sarah Hughes (3T+3Lo, 3S+3Lo, 3Lo+3Lo).
I didn't count the 3-jumps combos nor Liza, because she has never landed a clean 3T+3T in competition, just 3S+3T and 3Lz+3T (please correct me if I'm wrong...)!
I've learned a lot of things...
Last edited by FSGMT; 11-02-2012 at 01:51 PM.
Too bad that Polina Shelepen has been able to translate those six 3-3 into doing well at competitions. :( Hope she has a better season...So, this is the summary of what I've learned with this thread (thx everyone!):
6 DIFFERENT 3-3s: Polina Shelepen (3T+3T, 3S+3T, 3F+3T, 3F+3Lo, 3Lz+3T, 3Lz+3Lo)
5 DIFFERENT 3-3s: none
4 DIFFERENT 3-3s: Surya Bonaly (3T+3T, 3S+3T, 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T); Elena Radionova (3Lz+3T, 3Lo+3T, 3S+3T and, according to AlexRus, 3T+3T)
3 DIFFERENT 3-3s: Midori Ito (3T+3T, 3Lz+3T, 3A+3T (maybe 3Lo+3Lo, if you remember when please post the link)); Irina Slutskaya (3S+3Lo, 3T+3T, 3lz+3Lo); Shizuka Arakawa (3Lz+3T, 3S+3T, 3S+3Lo); Adelina Sotnikova (3T+3T, 3Lz+3T, 3Lz+3Lo); Carolina Kostner (3T+3T, 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T); Yu-Na Kim (3T+3T, 3F+3T, 3Lz+3T).
I didn't count the 3-jumps combos nor Liza, because she has never landed a clean 3T+3T in competition, just 3S+3T and 3Lz+3T (please correct me if I'm wrong...)!
I've learned a lot of things...
Would you include sequences of triple-half loop-triple?
If so, add Tara Lipinski, who did 3S+3Lo, 3Lo+3Lo, and 3T+1Lo+3S?
Oh, and IIRC Sarah Hughes did 3Lo+3Lo, 3S+3Lo, and 3T+3Lo at least once each.
Whether they would have gotten full credit for rotation under IJS scrutiny is another question. But few 3Lo combinations would.
Last edited by gkelly; 11-02-2012 at 12:29 PM.
I think FSGMT said he wasn't counting 3-jump combos for some reason.
If that counted, Gracie Gold would be on the last for three as well for her 3F-3T, 3Z-3T and 3F-1Lo-3S.
3Lo+3Lo? When?
And, yes, I didn't count the 3-jumps combos because (for me, at least, as a skater) they are easier than "real" combos so they are not really 3-3 combinations but 3-3 sequences (now counted as combos, I know) and the list would have been too long!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUBm8ziP0AM&t=1m43s
Carolina Kostner has landed 3 lutz-3 toe, 3 flip-3 toe, and 3toe-3toe in competiotions throughout her career.
Thank you, I've added her in my list!
Yes, I've already put her in the list!
Shizuka's done a few 3T-3T when she was younger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...jVTphM3I#t=31s
I'm surprised Miki's not yet mentioned. She's THE jumper.
3T-3T
3T-3Loop
3Sal-3Loop
3F-3Loop
3Lz-3Loop
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