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Thread: 2012 Cup of China Ladies Long Program

  1. #151
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    I'd argue that this is more a case of Akiko being low-balled, like she sadly always is.
    Who else should have beaten Mao on PCS?
    Alena Leonova? Ksenia Makarova? Look at that ladies field, 2nd highest PCS is not that much of an accomplishment....there's only Ashley worth discussing, but she wasn't in the last group (I hate how the PCS depend on what group you are skating in, but it's nothing new, really).
    Yes, in Nice Akiko was underscored, and so was wagner (in the PCS, I mean), when asada was well-rewarded: her program deserved something around 60, maybe 59... here, her PCS was ok: she is a swan on the ice, I LOVE this choreography, it looks like ballet on the ice, her skating is so soft and elegant, but, yes, she could improve the speed and the transitions in the first half, but, with this almost clean performance (not considering the UR, which shouldn't affect the PCS, beacuse they are not "evident" mistakes), she deserved AT LEAST 63, I thought she could have recived even 65-66 (for me, at least, but everyone has his/her own taste)...

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    I'd argue that this is more a case of Akiko being low-balled, like she sadly always is.
    Who else should have beaten Mao on PCS?
    Alena Leonova? Ksenia Makarova? Look at that ladies field, 2nd highest PCS is not that much of an accomplishment....there's only Ashley worth discussing, but she wasn't in the last group (I hate how the PCS depend on what group you are skating in, but it's nothing new, really).
    Do you mean a skater with just one clean triple deserves 60 for PCS? Asada's popped jumps disrupted the programs from the beginning to the end.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko666 View Post
    Do you mean a skater with just one clean triple deserves 60 for PCS? Asada's popped jumps disrupted the programs from the beginning to the end.
    She did have 2 clean triples.. I know she got an edge call but still it was a triple jump.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Julia's PCS ( even her debut) is almost same as with Adelina, Elizaveta has the lowest PCS amongst the 3.
    though I think the highest chance to increase her PCS is Adelina with Liza the lowest, judges seem to to prefer Julia and Adelina than to Liza
    Personally, I think Liza's PCS should be the highest among the Russian girls. She's underscored compared to others.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko666 View Post
    Asada landed only one clean triple in last Worlds FS, and earned the second highest PCS (60.02) only next to Kostner (65.72). Suzuki landed six triples and her PCS was 59.24.
    Suzuki wuz robbed! :(

    Mao had 4 triples in her SP & LP. Three of them were 3Lo, and the other was 3S. No 3-3, and her most difficult jump was 3Lo.
    (If Chan had won with those jump contents... I'm sure someone might have said 'overscored' or something... )
    I think Mao's other qualities are superior to Julia, so she should get high PCS. But Mao needs to work on her jumps if she wants to win Worlds, or next Olympic.
    Last edited by naan; 11-03-2012 at 10:52 AM.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuki View Post
    There are several technical elements in a program besides jumps. All of Mao's non-jump elements were well-executed (+GOE). So basically you're trying to argue that Julia should have won over Mao simply because she completed more triple jumps, but that difference is already reflected in their respective base values (the difference here would have been higher if Julia hadn't botched one of her last spins, making it a level 1).

    What I like most about Julia is her confidence and attack; there was not much of that there today. Without that and with her mistakes on elements, there was not much to enjoy about her program. Mao's program flowed well even with the jump mistakes. If you haven't already, please watch Mao's and Julia's performances back to back, like they were during the competition, and maybe you'll understand what I mean.
    I said all elements and that means jumps spins and step sequences. Mao did 3 triples and that was vital in her winning. It was very good that mao did three triples to add to her pcs and spins and steps and maybe next time she will do 4 triples or five triples and maybe do two triples in her short program instead of three like in this event. So her goal even though she already won may be to do 5 triples over the sp and lp. Jumps were such a tiny part of her win here maybe they will be a smaller part at her next event and not bigger. 3 triples in a free skate Mao! But jumps are only one part so who really cares.

    Never watching three triple Mao. Ever.
    Last edited by gmyers; 11-03-2012 at 10:57 AM.

  6. #156
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    I think Julia is going to get hit hard when her body changes. She's grown in height but still has a little girls body. I'm not sure those rather tiny jumps will survive. I know that horrible looking 2axel won't survive.

  7. #157
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko666
    Do you mean a skater with just one clean triple deserves 60 for PCS? Asada's popped jumps disrupted the programs from the beginning to the end.
    So what did she deserve in your opinion? What component should have been lower?
    And I don't care much for the exact number a skater gets in PCS, I'm mainly looking at the relation between skaters - events are scored differently anyway and I have to admit I'm not exactly having a strong imagination where the difference between a 7 and a 7.25 lies - I know if something should be a 8 or a 9 for me, but the rest...
    Despite that, Mao popped 3 of her jumps - and not all of them like you make it sound. The 3S got an UR call, but underrotations are hardly disrupting a program, just if they're additionally flawed - like two-footed or resulting in a stand still - which didn't happen with Maos.

    And to answer your question: if a skater goes out there and does 7 triple jumps, all with UR call but all of them nearly not visible to the naked eye without slow motion - than yes, I think that skater could get huge PCS without having done one clean triple. And I think that would be completly rightfully so.

    @FSGMT: completly agreed Mao still lacks more power and speed, but she looked solid and has other great qualities to her skating. I think her score is fair.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by naan View Post
    Personally, I think Liza's PCS should be the highest among the Russian girls. She's underscored compared to others.


    Suzuki wuz robbed! :(

    Mao had 4 triples in her SP & LP. Three of them were 3Lo, and the other was 3S. No 3-3, and her most difficult jump was 3Lo.
    (If Chan had won with those jump contents... I'm sure someone might have said 'overscored' or something... )
    I think Mao's other qualities are superior to Julia, so she should get high PCS. But Mao needs to work on her jumps if she wants to win Worlds, or next Olympic.
    But Mao didn't win. So what's with the Chan comparison?
    Wasn't Abbott with a meltdown at SA got second highest PCS?

  9. #159
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    Can we start a new thread about PCS and leave it out of the CoC ladies FS thread?

    I would've liked Mirai to win bronze after watching hers and Korpi's performance. Mirai deserved the downgrade on the 2A-3T and the underrotation on the 2L at the end of her 3 jump combo. The other underrotation calls were really weird to me (really how was the last loop << ?). Mirai's been plagued with edge calls in the past few years by the tech panel. 2010-2011: she lips. 2011-2012: she flutz. She started out flutzing and now she's lipping. She must be so confused. She has a cleaner performance than Korpi too. I also think her program is comparable to Mao's and Kiira's, and my favorite among the American ladies (yes, I prefer it over Wagner's). Under 7 for transitions??? and most insulting is PCS so close to Lipnitskaia's. Lipnitskaia's program has nothing special except for jumps, can't even hold a strong edge... Speed wise Mirai and Kiira were top of the field. Julia has little ice coverage and Mao was more timid that JO

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    So what did she deserve in your opinion? What component should have been lower?
    And I don't care much for the exact number a skater gets in PCS, I'm mainly looking at the relation between skaters - events are scored differently anyway and I have to admit I'm not exactly having a strong imagination where the difference between a 7 and a 7.25 lies - I know if something should be a 8 or a 9 for me, but the rest...
    Despite that, Mao popped 3 of her jumps - and not all of them like you make it sound. The 3S got an UR call, but underrotations are hardly disrupting a program, just if they're additionally flawed - like two-footed or resulting in a stand still - which didn't happen with Maos.

    And to answer your question: if a skater goes out there and does 7 triple jumps, all with UR call but all of them nearly not visible to the naked eye without slow motion - than yes, I think that skater could get huge PCS without having done one clean triple. And I think that would be completly rightfully so.

    @FSGMT: completly agreed Mao still lacks more power and speed, but she looked solid and has other great qualities to her skating. I think her score is fair.
    It no longer sounds like a sport.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    But Mao didn't win. So what's with the Chan comparison?
    Wasn't Abbott with a meltdown at SA got second highest PCS?
    IMHO I perceive TES and PCS as two different things while the judges cant. They sometimes feel that SS, TR, PE, CH, IN have something to do with a skater falling or underrotating. I don't see the logic in that. I would understand if the skater gave up and started skating sloppily during the middle of the program but if they don't give up, give them the PCS they deserve

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post

    And to answer your question: if a skater goes out there and does 7 triple jumps, all with UR call but all of them nearly not visible to the naked eye without slow motion - than yes, I think that skater could get huge PCS without having done one clean triple. And I think that would be completly rightfully so.
    Preach to the choir! ITA

  13. #163
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko666
    It no longer sounds like a sport.
    I'm not getting what you want at all. Guess that's fine

  14. #164
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    Three triple Mao did win! It wasnt a worlds and it was "only" cup of china but she did.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko666 View Post
    It no longer sounds like a sport.
    +1

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