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Thread: 2012 Cup of China Ladies Long Program

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapphiresky View Post
    ...., but it's not like skaters mean to fail- they're trying their best. She's being a trooper just by stepping out onto the ice every single season. I'm glad that she didn't decide to retire even though she thought about it this summer.

    FYI, this is what she said at the press conference:
    One journalist from Japan asked mao if she has any advice for young skaters. She said that she is not in a position to give advices because they are already high level skaters and she is looking forward to competing with them.
    She also said that she was not at all happy with her performance, was surprised at her win and needs to do a lot of work.

  2. #197
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    The << call on Mirai's second 3Loop is just unfathomable. There is simply NO way the jump was that underrotated. Absolutely not.

  3. #198
    Custom Title mary01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I wish COP told her she needed a lot of work! She's telling herself but COP is all like "you are great and a winner!!!"
    She WAS great and IS a deserving winner!

    Her score show that she did mistakes, since a clean Mao would never score this low, what you don't seem to understand, is that Mao is a well rounded skater, and figure skating and the scores reflect a lot more then just the jumps, and as a reminder she still landed 5 tripple jumps in the free skate, her getting some as slightly underrotated doesn't change that fact either!
    Last edited by mary01; 11-03-2012 at 01:24 PM.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    It's not even really about Julia its about this level of jumping being a part of something that gets the most points and wins an event? This is COP. COP allows loops and salchows to be the only successful jumps as part of winning. She attempted different but they were unsuccessful. And also this is Mao that with this level of jumps won . Mao Asada won an event, no matter who her competition or what they did, with loops and salchows. That's amazing. I can't beleive this is Mao or this is COP.

    I don't even want to see Julia either! The exteme level of atriciousness that skate must be to lose must be awful to witness!
    GP events have few contestants and someone has to win, even if it's not the most inspiring skate ever . So it does matter who the competition were and what they did, i.e. how strong/weak the field is. I'm not that happy either with Mao winning with those jumps, but she was lovely otherwise and I can understand why she won, having seen the whole competition.

    If you think that someone else should have won this particular competition, I would like to hear your arguments based on the protocols. But I have the feeling that this is not the case and that you just really dislike Mao, in which case I see no point in continuing this discussion.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuki View Post
    GP events have few contestants and someone has to win, even if it's not the most inspiring skate ever . So it does matter who the competition were and what they did, i.e. how strong/weak the field is. I'm not that happy either with Mao winning with those jumps, but she was lovely otherwise and I can understand why she won, having seen the whole competition.

    If you think that someone else should have won this particular competition, I would like to hear your arguments based on the protocols. But I have the feeling that this is not the case and that you just really dislike Mao, in which case I see no point in continuing this discussion.
    I really like Mao. I liked Bells of Moscow for the drama of the program and the triple axel at worlds and at the Olympics. But not this his Mao that won because of COP. I'm not a fan of this Mao winning. Everyone is saying that Lipniskaia even though she landed more triples and everything was just terrible and the PCS was poor and her jump landings were all bad and the program was all bad and there was nothing good about Lipnitskaia but giving Mao a win? With Loop and salchow? I don't favor anybody. If any competition deserved to have no winner it may have been this one! Maybe Korpi- seems like she was better in PCS and had more well done jumps. But this competition as a fan of Mao and someone who was eagerly anticipating Lipnitsaia's GP debut it was just terrible. Loops and salchows with good PCS winning over horrendous PCS and harder jumps! It's too bad there was a winner.

  6. #201
    Custom Title mary01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    The << call on Mirai's second 3Loop is just unfathomable. There is simply NO way the jump was that underrotated. Absolutely not.
    the technical contoller was really strict today, and i also question many of his < calls !

  7. #202
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Unfortunately for Mirai on a lot of her jumps, the very tippy top of her toepick touches down on the ice right before that 1/4 turn mark. The < calls were all justified if you believe that's when a jump should be considered landed (rather than when there's more actual weight from the blade pressing into the ice), but the << on that 3Loop was entirely wrong.

    Korpi's 3T and 3Lz were both barely, barely rotated. It's kind of sad how a skater can get so many more points for doing lackluster jumps that are only rotated a degree or two more. It doesn't make sense mathematically and that's what CoP is supposed to be about.
    Last edited by Blades of Passion; 11-03-2012 at 01:48 PM.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by icellist View Post
    Did you read my previous assessment of her jumps (that I said wasn't clean). And you make it sound like even when she does fully rotate she should be dinged. and Mirai is known to skate lifelessly ALL the time? If we take out the 2011-2012 season, how many examples can you use? Could you write in a less accusatory, more civilized tone?
    You said they butchered her scores. Do you know how that sounded? Sounded like she was fine but they were out to get her.
    She had been on zombie mode for the past two seasons. Looks like the trend is not reversing this year, either.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko666 View Post
    If a skater can win only on PCS, it's not much different from ice dance.
    oooooo burn!

  10. #205
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    I agree with the judging... I would even say that Mao was underscored. Mao and Kira in terms of PCS are a different league... No way Mirai deserved the bronze. Very mediocre skating, but it's promising that she finally LANDED all the jumps...I am not a pro but it was clear that most of them were way underrotated. What's for Julia, she seemed VERY nervous even at the beginning and it showed, she's pissed off and it's good, she does have a champion character! By the way I hate her leg liftings... She doesn't need that...evrb will see how flexible she is at the end. I've never understood inflated PCS of Kostner and now I don't understand all the fuss about Ashley...I do like her skating, but as for me...Kira and Mao are of a different world in comparison with them...though I give Ashley credit for her consistensy.
    We'll live and see how juniours grow and develop...we should talk about the way they are now with their strong and weak points. I think it's unfair to underestimate TES of younger skaters saying they lack this and that in terms of PCS while estimating PCS of mature skaters having a blind eye on their low TES. It's sport and for me TES go in the first place. If you can add good PCS to that it's good, but only TES matter. If you like PCS go to the show, ballet and not a sports competition.
    iT's sad to watch that performance outweighs sports achievement in sport.

  11. #206
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapphiresky
    Whoa...someone's a little angry...
    Last season, she attempted a program with 6 different triples- not many ladies do that nowadays, sure it wasn't a great season in terms of placement but she was also dealing with personal issues.
    Before that, of course she was struggling- she was revamping her technique. I really had a lot of respect for her during that time- for her to win Worlds in 2010, then come out in competition the next season being only able to do 2 clean triples in competition and having all of the world watch her as she struggled.
    Sure, it easy to criticize as audience members, but it's not like skaters mean to fail- they're trying their best. She's being a trooper just by stepping out onto the ice every single season. I'm glad that she didn't decide to retire even though she thought about it this summer.

    FYI, this is what she said at the press conference:
    One journalist from Japan asked mao if she has any advice for young skaters. She said that she is not in a position to give advices because they are already high level skaters and she is looking forward to competing with them.
    She also said that she was not at all happy with her performance, was surprised at her win and needs to do a lot of work.
    Great post!!

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Unfortunately for Mirai on a lot of her jumps, the very tippy top of her toepick touches down on the ice right before that 1/4 turn mark. The < calls were all justified if you believe that's when a jump should be considered landed (rather than when there's more actual weight from the blade pressing into the ice), but the << on that 3Loop was entirely wrong.

    Korpi's 3T and 3Lz were both barely, barely rotated. It's kind of sad how a skater can get so many more points for doing lackluster jumps that are only rotated a degree or two more. It doesn't make sense mathematically and that's what CoP is supposed to be about.
    I have to agree about this: Mirai's jumps missed something around 1/5 of the rotation in flip and lutz, it was not really 1/4, when the toeloop was obviously << but Yes, some of kiira's jumps had the same rotation but received the same score... It looks really like the Technical Panel didn't like Mirai at all (technically, I mean)

  13. #208
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    Happy Mao took the win. Good for her and her being humble.

    I guess I don't get the argument after watching both. The overall quality, maturity, choreography, skating skills go to Mao imo. IMO the scoring was right. I didn't know Julia also had some obvious mistakes over those jumps. I don't know how I feel yet about Julia's execution of her jumps.
    Last edited by lavender; 11-03-2012 at 03:01 PM.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by gioccia View Post
    I think it's unfair to underestimate TES of younger skaters saying they lack this and that in terms of PCS while estimating PCS of mature skaters having a blind eye on their low TES..
    I know you wrote a lot but I really believe in the bolded part! It's like Mao can just do loops and salchows and but because of all the non jump elements and PCS jumps really don't mattter for her anymore in success or at least not in the Cup of China! But you see the same thing on the world level with Kostner! So it may carryover that Mao could do loops and salchows at a worlds and medal or win. If second place in Tuktamisheva or (she's not old enough but) Lipnitskaia than she would win that too. And then you have a world championship winner where jumps are just minimum effort with no meaning really.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I know you wrote a lot but I really believe in the bolded part! It's like Mao can just do loops and salchows and but because of all the non jump elements and PCS jumps really don't mattter for her anymore in success or at least not in the Cup of China! But you see the same thing on the world level with Kostner! So it may carryover that Mao could do loops and salchows at a worlds and medal or win. If second place in Tuktamisheva or (she's not old enough but) Lipnitskaia than she would win that too. And then you have a world championship winner where jumps are just minimum effort with no meaning really.
    I think this is a trend, we won't be seeing any high technical ladies medalling at Worlds next season , PCS seems more of a buffer nowadays
    unless Kim Yuna comes back of course

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