Page 21 of 23 FirstFirst ... 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 LastLast
Results 301 to 315 of 331

Thread: 2012 Cup of China Ladies Long Program

  1. #301
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,705
    Julias biggest problem was having any triples triples or more than two triples and not having great PCS!

  2. #302
    Miserere Nobis
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas Darling
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Julias biggest problem was having any triples triples or more than two triples and not having great PCS!
    Not landing her triple-triples or having them to begin with? Her PCS was ten points less than Mao's, which was where she lost significant ground, but she has time to improve.

  3. #303
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,705
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    Not landing her triple-triples or having them to begin with? Her PCS was ten points less than Mao's, which was where she lost significant ground, but she has time to improve.
    Definitely doing the 3/3 - she could have maximized GOE on a 3/2 or 3 jump combo. Not 3/3 but 3/2/2 or 2/2/2. That is what Julia was doing as a junior and it was smart! She needs to go back to being smart! What skating world is her coach where the world champions are doing triple lutz triple toes the past few years.

  4. #304
    Miserere Nobis
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas Darling
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Definitely doing the 3/3 - she could have maximized GOE on a 3/2 or 3 jump combo. Not 3/3 but 3/2/2 or 2/2/2. That is what Julia was doing as a junior and it was smart! She needs to go back to being smart! What skating world is her coach where the world champions are doing triple lutz triple toes the past few years.
    Is the triple lutz-triple toe not one of the hardest combinations around? I remember the Vancouver commentators saying that Yuna's attempt was the most difficult combo in the entire ladies' field, and that was with Mao's triple axels around.

  5. #305
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    322
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Definitely doing the 3/3 - she could have maximized GOE on a 3/2 or 3 jump combo. Not 3/3 but 3/2/2 or 2/2/2. That is what Julia was doing as a junior and it was smart! She needs to go back to being smart! What skating world is her coach where the world champions are doing triple lutz triple toes the past few years.
    It's interesting you mentioned doing doubles - Julia herself talked about it in her post-competition interview. She said her problem is that she isn't good at doing double jumps - they turn out strange when she does them and that was the reason she went for the triple at the end of both of her combos despite problems with the first jump. Very unusual.

  6. #306
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,705
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    Is the triple lutz-triple toe not one of the hardest combinations around? I remember the Vancouver commentators saying that Yuna's attempt was the most difficult combo in the entire ladies' field, and that was with Mao's triple axels around.
    No it is but it is very new to Julia and maybe she should have gone with what worked for her to consistently as a junor which was double axel triple toe double toe . She didn't do 3/3 as a junior and it was new for her as a senior and maybe because it is so rare she should have focused on what worked for her best not getting the biggest points which of course didn't work for her.

  7. #307
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,705
    Quote Originally Posted by babayaga View Post
    It's interesting you mentioned doing doubles - Julia herself talked about it in her post-competition interview. She said her problem is that she isn't good at doing double jumps - they turn out strange when she does them and that was the reason she went for the triple at the end of both of her combos despite problems with the first jump. Very unusual.
    I was just thinking of her when she was a junior and it was all 2A+3T+2T and 2a+3T and there was no 3lz-3T and no 3/2/2 of any kind or 3/3.

  8. #308
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    830
    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    I LOVE Oksana's Swan Lake SP (one of my all-time favourites), but if we're talking about footwork here, Oksana's steps in that SP are much too simple to be considered a "step sequence" under the standards of CoP today. Even by 94 standards her footwork was quite weak...wasn't her step sequence basically all 3-turns in a single direction?
    In terms of difficulty, absolutely, Mao's beats Oksana's for sure. But most all step sequences under 6.0 look very simple compared to the step sequences under the standards of CoP, and I prefer many step sequences under 6.0 because they're not overly long and didn't dragg on and actually have a pattern, and they match the music.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puchi View Post
    Oksana Baiul's 1994 EX was not to Swan Lake, it was "The Swan" by Camille Saint-Saëns
    Quite right, thanks for the correction. The Swan has influenced so many modern interpretations of Odette and Swan Lake that the two are often linked in my mind. I love the contrast of Oksana's EX in white versus the image of her SP Black Swan; even though technically she's not the White Swan, since it's not Swan Lake, it's so very easy to think of it as a White Swan performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    I clearly respect and recognize the right of others to dispute Mao's win, since that's what makes this forum such a lively and interesting place.
    ...(edit)
    Do not attempt to condescend or put words in my mouth--I never, ever suggested that it is "only okay for people to dispute victories that [I] also dispute."
    By saying that Mao's win is "indisputable," actually, I don't think you ARE clearly respecting and recognizing the right of others to dispute Mao's win. By saying it's indisputable you're saying that people can't dispute it! That was what really bothered me; as you can see, I did not challenge others who also felt Mao should've won and I clearly said I saw the argument for why Mao did win. Why accuse me of condescending when it was YOUR post that declared Mao's win indisputable? I'm just disputing your statement when you said it's indisputable.

  9. #309
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    322
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I was just thinking of her when she was a junior and it was all 2A+3T+2T and 2a+3T and there was no 3lz-3T and no 3/2/2 of any kind or 3/3.
    I see. I thought you meant her going for 3Lz2T instead of 3Lz3T, but I see what you mean now. I guess her 3Lz3T was solid enough in practice that they included it into the programs. Her coach mentioned that Julia was doing this combo in practice already last season, but they didn't want to do it in competitions yet. Maybe they thought she'll need a harder combo even to compete within Russia as both Adelina and Liza were doing difficult triple-triples last year. Also, doing 3Lz3T in SP allowed her to be in first after the short program here.

  10. #310
    Miserere Nobis
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas Darling
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    By saying that Mao's win is "indisputable," actually, I don't think you ARE clearly respecting and recognizing the right of others to dispute Mao's win. By saying it's indisputable you're saying that people can't dispute it! That was what really bothered me; as you can see, I did not challenge others who also felt Mao should've won and I clearly said I saw the argument for why Mao did win. Why accuse me of condescending when it was YOUR post that declared Mao's win indisputable? I'm just disputing your statement when you said it's indisputable.
    I won't sit here and argue semantics with you just because I failed to add an "I think" in front of my post. In my opinion, Mao's win is indisputable, just as in my opinion, Kaetlyn Osmond should not have won Skate Canada over Akiko Suzuki. I do not think, personally, that there is anything worth disputing about Mao's win because it seemed clear to me that she skated the better program, but that doesn't mean that I'm knocking down those who want to or even getting involved in the technical mumbo-jumbo! Tell me, did I--at any point--shut anyone down for suggesting a different viewpoint? Did I pick arguments with those who are championing Julia or another skater? No--the only debates I participated in were those defending the dignity of the skaters themselves, and those considering the elements in Julia and Mao's programs. I accused you of condescending for the same reason you accused me of disrespecting the rights of others to have opinions--a simple issue of the semantics in your post. In fact, at this point, I think you're the one disrespecting my right to post my opinions, all because the diction was easily misunderstood and you felt it was necessary to attack me outright rather than clarify my meaning first.
    Last edited by ForeverFish; 11-04-2012 at 11:07 PM.

  11. #311
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,705
    Quote Originally Posted by babayaga View Post
    I see. I thought you meant her going for 3Lz2T instead of 3Lz3T, but I see what you mean now. I guess her 3Lz3T was solid enough in practice that they included it into the programs. Her coach mentioned that Julia was doing this combo in practice already last season, but they didn't want to do it in competitions yet. Maybe they thought she'll need a harder combo even to compete within Russia as both Adelina and Liza were doing difficult triple-triples last year. Also, doing 3Lz3T in SP allowed her to be in first after the short program here.
    I can see how going for the lutz toe combo can also be for competition in Russia as well getting it for international events. Even if she did what was usual for SPs last season which was 3t+3t she probably wouldn't have beaten Mao in the SP. But as a junior she switched from 3/3 in the SP to no 3/3 in the FS. The coach thinks she needs 3lz 3toe as a senior I guess and no going back.

  12. #312
    Miserere Nobis
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas Darling
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I can see how going for the lutz toe combo can also be for competition in Russia as well getting it for international events. Even if she did what was usual for SPs last season which was 3t+3t she probably wouldn't have beaten Mao in the SP. But as a junior she switched from 3/3 in the SP to no 3/3 in the FS. The coach thinks she needs 3lz 3toe as a senior I guess and no going back.
    I think that Julia does need the triple-triple, since it can get massive marks if done cleanly and maybe compensate for her shortcomings in the PCS. Just to use a few examples--Elizaveta, Gracie, and Adelina are all attempting triple-triples in their programs this season. Gracie has had them up and running since her junior competitions. I've seen Julia land the triple-triple (she did so at the Finlandia Trophy), so she is definitely capable of doing so. It seems to me that she had the same issue with nerves that a lot of the other teenagers have been having.

  13. #313
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    830
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    In fact, at this point, I think you're the one disrespecting my right to post my opinions, all because the diction was easily misunderstood and you felt it was necessary to attack me outright rather than clarify my meaning first.
    It was not an attack, and I'm sorry you feel that way. You stated your opinion; I disagreed with your stated opinion. I think a lack of understanding of meaning is happening on your side as well as my own, so perhaps we can leave it there.

    Getting back on topic, I think Julia will be fine. A silver in her senior debut is great, and I am impressed with the fact that she upgraded her combos in the SP and FS to harder ones this season. She's one of the few skaters to do so. There are valid concerns about the height of her jumps, especially her axel, but it's too soon to predict what will happen there. She, Adelina, and Elizaveta are certainly formidable competitors, and it's really exciting watching them compete and grow and develop as skaters.

  14. #314
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,571
    If Julia has low jumps now, at 14, what will happen to her jumps when she grows/fills out? She gets little flowout from her jumps now, and that cuts down on her ice coverage. If and when she hits that leggy coltish stage, I can see that she may have a real problem adjusting.

  15. #315
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,705
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    I think that Julia does need the triple-triple, since it can get massive marks if done cleanly and maybe compensate for her shortcomings in the PCS. Just to use a few examples--Elizaveta, Gracie, and Adelina are all attempting triple-triples in their programs this season. Gracie has had them up and running since her junior competitions. I've seen Julia land the triple-triple (she did so at the Finlandia Trophy), so she is definitely capable of doing so. It seems to me that she had the same issue with nerves that a lot of the other teenagers have been having.
    It was done in Finlandia so she can do it and only doing it will make it consistent maybe for the next GP but her PCS is not likely to improve and she may face better skaters with better PCS AND better jumps than Mao. So they really need to be good - perfect in a every way because everyone knows what kind of jumps she can lose a competition to if she is not flawless and perfection would be the only way to beat Wagner or Gao or Tuktamisheva.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post

    Getting back on topic, I think Julia will be fine. A silver in her senior debut is great, and I am impressed with the fact that she upgraded her combos in the SP and FS to harder ones this season. She's one of the few skaters to do so. There are valid concerns about the height of her jumps, especially her axel, but it's too soon to predict what will happen there. She, Adelina, and Elizaveta are certainly formidable competitors, and it's really exciting watching them compete and grow and develop as skaters.
    Too bad at the latter twos seasons so far. The post below ties into this!

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    If Julia has low jumps now, at 14, what will happen to her jumps when she grows/fills out? She gets little flowout from her jumps now, and that cuts down on her ice coverage. If and when she hits that leggy coltish stage, I can see that she may have a real problem adjusting.
    Maybe she will stop doing singles and join Russian growing synchro program!?! Or she'll stop skating! Or she'll just word hard to keep the jumps and be successful or be a Caroline Zhang for 2 or 3 years! Maybe she'll be Ksenia Doronina or like a Sokolova? It can go so many ways! Not all doom and gloom is ahead.

Page 21 of 23 FirstFirst ... 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •