Page 22 of 23 FirstFirst ... 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 LastLast
Results 316 to 330 of 331

Thread: 2012 Cup of China Ladies Long Program

  1. #316
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    1,024
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm
    If Julia has low jumps now, at 14, what will happen to her jumps when she grows/fills out? She gets little flowout from her jumps now, and that cuts down on her ice coverage. If and when she hits that leggy coltish stage, I can see that she may have a real problem adjusting.
    That's pretty much what I thought too... although I don't think all of her jumps might be trouble. Her 3T is really good, she gets good spring into it - the only thing I'm wondering about is that tiny 2A. It's just a wait and see thing, I don't think Julia will completly lose her jumps or something, just that she will need some time getting used to body changes like a lot of skaters have. All of these discussions about body type and how unlikely it was for her to change much didn't stop Liza from growing out (although with that jumping technique, I'm not worried for Liza at all!).
    And to be fair, while Julia never has good flow out of most of her jumps, it was really not her day at CoC. It's rather remarkable how she still landed everything.

    On the other hand, I found a blog post where the writer was kind of complaining about Julia having pre-rotations on her 3Lz and 3F. Now I'm far from being an expert, but things like that don't make her technique look better to me at all.

  2. #317
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,576
    Sotnikova has always had big jumps, and even she has had trouble adjusting to longer legs and a filled-out body. When a skater has tiny jumps to begin with, I can foresee falls and double-footed jumps. Yes, Julia's 3t is bigger than her other jumps, but she can't do more than two combinations with 3t, and the first jump has to get off the ice.

    As it is, looking at the protocol, Julia gets -GOE on many of her jumps, and even on the ones with +GOE, she mostly gets 0s and 1s, because the jumps are small and/or the flowout and ice coverage just isn't there.

  3. #318
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    2,876
    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    That's pretty much what I thought too... although I don't think all of her jumps might be trouble. Her 3T is really good, she gets good spring into it - the only thing I'm wondering about is that tiny 2A. It's just a wait and see thing, I don't think Julia will completly lose her jumps or something, just that she will need some time getting used to body changes like a lot of skaters have. All of these discussions about body type and how unlikely it was for her to change much didn't stop Liza from growing out (although with that jumping technique, I'm not worried for Liza at all!).
    And to be fair, while Julia never has good flow out of most of her jumps, it was really not her day at CoC. It's rather remarkable how she still landed everything.

    On the other hand, I found a blog post where the writer was kind of complaining about Julia having pre-rotations on her 3Lz and 3F. Now I'm far from being an expert, but things like that don't make her technique look better to me at all.
    Yes, it's sad beacuse she reminds me of C. Zhang: bad technique (especially in axel and lutz/flip), tiny body... I'm not saying this WILL happen, but just that she MIGHT lose some of them or become less constant in landing them... Yes, I'm not really worried about Liza growing: her technique (especially in the lutz) is almost perfect, so her problems should be temporary!

  4. #319
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,708
    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    Yes, it's sad beacuse she reminds me of C. Zhang: bad technique (especially in axel and lutz/flip), tiny body... I'm not saying this WILL happen, but just that she MIGHT lose some of them or become less constant in landing them... Yes, I'm not really worried about Liza growing: her technique (especially in the lutz) is almost perfect, so her problems should be temporary!
    Even when zhang did well she had the worst mule kick! I didn't see that from Julia at all. I don't thinks it's a guarantee that she will have a mule kick or lose all her jumps which is the consensus here. I think the 2014-2018 quad is where she will do well if she is not Zhang 2 mule kick.

  5. #320
    Miserere Nobis
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas Darling
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    It was done in Finlandia so she can do it and only doing it will make it consistent maybe for the next GP but her PCS is not likely to improve and she may face better skaters with better PCS AND better jumps than Mao. So they really need to be good - perfect in a every way because everyone knows what kind of jumps she can lose a competition to if she is not flawless and perfection would be the only way to beat Wagner or Gao or Tuktamisheva.
    Really not sure about Julia v. Gao...I couldn't say who's the better skater, but in any competition, I feel that Julia would triumph simply due to consistency and her "wow-factor" as a fourteen-year-old starlet with crazy flexibility. Gao can be very artistic when she skates cleanly, but she hasn't exactly wowed the community during her career...her SA silver finish was a huge shock, and partly due to Sotnikova's flubs. Wagner also trounced her score by >14 points with an imperfect program, whereas we've never seen Gao skate better.

    Tuktamisheva is having issues with puberty and injury, according to Mishin. She's noticeably gained weight since last season and we've only seen her at SC so far, where she placed fourth. I'm worried about how her filling-out will affect her jumps and overall energy. It's a very stressful time for a young girl.

  6. #321
    Miserere Nobis
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas Darling
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Sotnikova has always had big jumps, and even she has had trouble adjusting to longer legs and a filled-out body. When a skater has tiny jumps to begin with, I can foresee falls and double-footed jumps. Yes, Julia's 3t is bigger than her other jumps, but she can't do more than two combinations with 3t, and the first jump has to get off the ice.

    As it is, looking at the protocol, Julia gets -GOE on many of her jumps, and even on the ones with +GOE, she mostly gets 0s and 1s, because the jumps are small and/or the flowout and ice coverage just isn't there.
    She definitely needs to improve her jumps--if not in preparation for growth spurts and body changes, then for better scores. Right now, she's impressive due to her flexibility, age, and interpretation (which is usually present), but once she moves past the teen-starlet stage, she'll need more to anchor her spot.

    Am I the only one who thinks that, even after her growth spurts and weight gain, Julia will still be relatively lean and long-legged? She's so light that I can't imagine her going through the same issues as Tukta or Sotnikova, both of whom are broader and taller.

  7. #322
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,576
    Tuktamysheva was tiny last year, and most posters felt she would remain tiny through puberty. This year, she hasn't grown much taller, but she's quite a bit wider. There is no telling in advance how puberty will affect a young skater. Lipnitskaia could be one of those ladies who stays trim and leggy, but grows much taller, the way Kostner did. It took Carolina years to get back control of her jumps.

  8. #323
    Miserere Nobis
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas Darling
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Tuktamysheva was tiny last year, and most posters felt she would remain tiny through puberty. This year, she hasn't grown much taller, but she's quite a bit wider. There is no telling in advance how puberty will affect a young skater. Lipnitskaia could be one of those ladies who stays trim and leggy, but grows much taller, the way Kostner did. It took Carolina years to get back control of her jumps.
    She has a lot of room to grow--her bio (not sure how recent) gives her height as 4'11", though it's a fickle thing that depends on both genes and environment. I guess we have no way of knowing exactly how much she'll change, but I'm staking my bets that she won't change much. Tukta was wider than Julia even before she gained weight, so assuming that Julia follows the same pattern, I'd still expect her to remain trim and leggy, as you said.

  9. #324
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    761
    Liza said in her interview last year that she can't live without chocolate)and there is no special diet for her or smth like that.

  10. #325
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    248
    A random thought... I am not a huge fan of Julia, but I actually like her better now after the cup of China. She is not a robot after all. She is a human like the rest of skaters and the rest of us. In any case, she has a long career ahead of us, so I hope she doesn't overdo herself too early and tire herself out. silver is an amazing debut and I hope she is proud of herself and doesn't beat herself up for having one not-so-perfect performance.

  11. #326
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Beyond Neverland
    Posts
    1,243
    I think people have been far too harsh with Julia on this board. I wonder if she is American or Canadian, what would be the reaction be like :P Same thing applies to Liza, who I just adore from last year.

    Julia is among my favourite junior ladies last year (Liza being another one) and someone I am terribly excited about for the future. I think her potential is absolutely enormous and I do love her strength despite the obvious deficiencies which is a natural progression at her age. It has been said again she is only 14 so what do people honestly expect? She does have almost a decade to catch up with the leaders of this sport so there are still plenty of time to refining her artistry. Akiko for example is almost twice her age and I suspect Julia can easily beat Akiko just give her a few years of life experience (assume she survives the puberty monster). I also love the fact she is so honest and genuine with that p*ssed of look at the KnC which seriously made me loled. It shows she is a true little Diva in the making (true to her heritage), who seems want to get mad and get even like RIGHT NOW THIS SECOND! Good for her, so watch out ladies, her real test of character is her next competition where she will ninja flexy leg even more lethally to bash out those TES.

    Given the competition is mostly won by PCS, I am very curious actually. I seem to recall they increased the value of loop from 1.5 to 1.8 just after the Olympics, reduced the value of the Lutz (did they increase the value of the toeloop?), as well as lessen the penalty of UR jumps from a downgrade. Just what would Mao's FS TES score be had it been marked before Olympics 2010 before the rule changes? And likewise Julia and Kiira's score?
    Last edited by os168; 11-06-2012 at 08:17 PM.

  12. #327
    Miserere Nobis
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas Darling
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    I think people have been far too harsh with Julia on this board. I wonder if she is American or Canadian, what would be the reaction be like :P Same thing applies to Liza, who I just adore from last year.

    Julia is among my favourite junior ladies last year (Liza being another one) and someone I am terribly excited about for the future. I think her potential is absolutely enormous and I do love her strength despite the obvious deficiencies which is a natural progression at her age. It has been said again she is only 14 so what do people honestly expect? She does have almost a decade to catch up with the leaders of this sport so there are still plenty of time to refining her artistry. Akiko for example is almost twice her age and I suspect Julia can easily beat Akiko just give her a few years of life experience (assume she survives the puberty monster). I also love the fact she is so honest and genuine with that p*ssed of look at the KnC which seriously made me loled. It shows she is a true little Diva in the making (true to her heritage), who seems want to get mad and get even like RIGHT NOW THIS SECOND! Good for her, so watch out ladies, her real test of character is her next competition where she will ninja flexy leg even more lethally to bash out those TES.

    Given the competition is mostly won by PCS, I am very curious actually. I seem to recall they increased the value of loop from 1.5 to 1.8 just after the Olympics, reduced the value of the Lutz (did they increase the value of the toeloop?), as well as lessen the penalty of UR jumps from a downgrade. Just what would Mao's FS TES score be had it been marked before Olympics 2010 before the rule changes? And likewise Julia and Kiira's score?
    Harsh? Not necessarily, IMO. I have read some extremely inappropriate comments about Julia, but those were a tiny minority. The criticism of Julia is, in my opinion, valid and essential to her future scores. She lacks the height on her jumps (and, despite that I don't think she'll have a huge issue with body changes, we always need to be prepared for a case like Liza's when she has to cope with weight gain and injury), and her PCS was far behind Mao's in the short program. Someone else on this board also compared her CoC PCS to her PCS at one of her JGPs last year, and the numbers were very nearly identical--not something she wants when she is so obviously determined to improve. No one is doubting her potential--heck, have you seen her flexibility?--but in comparison to the veteran seniors, she is merely good, not excellent or extraordinary. I agree that she has a long time to refine her artistry, but that doesn't mean she should put it off until she is at or almost at the age of the older ladies. Progress must be visible throughout the season, and since Junior Worlds last season, there has been almost no improvement on the height and flow on her jumps.

    What do you mean by "true to her heritage"? I personally don't find Julia a diva, nor do I think that her disappointment in the KoC was indicative of one--in her interviews, she seems like a composed if somewhat quiet girl who wants to win and to be the best. She reminds me of how Nadia Comaneci was in Montreal--very different athletes, but united in their determination and passion for the sport.

  13. #328
    Miserere Nobis
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas Darling
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky85 View Post
    A random thought... I am not a huge fan of Julia, but I actually like her better now after the cup of China. She is not a robot after all. She is a human like the rest of skaters and the rest of us. In any case, she has a long career ahead of us, so I hope she doesn't overdo herself too early and tire herself out. silver is an amazing debut and I hope she is proud of herself and doesn't beat herself up for having one not-so-perfect performance.
    Did you think she was a robot before?

  14. #329
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,708
    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    I . Just what would Mao's FS TES score be had it been marked before Olympics 2010 before the rule changes? And likewise Julia and Kiira's score?
    Obviously it would have been worse but everyones score would have been so much worse! Everyones jump layout I assume woud have been so different! But under the old system maybe some people would have gotten ! instead e and maybe the judging wouldn't have called some jumps UR! There is so much more insentive now to call UR because you are not downgrading just calling UR. Depends on who the caller would have been.

    And of course Julia has 10 years to get Mao PCS and higher PCS and be 2022 world champion or something and go to 2018 and 2022 Olympics.

  15. #330
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    248
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverFish View Post
    Did you think she was a robot before?
    Haha maybe I guess I felt that she was just so different from other people (not just athletes) as a human.

Page 22 of 23 FirstFirst ... 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •