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Thread: 2012 Cup of China Pairs Long Program

  1. #46
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    I was right about K/S. Their time was in 2009-2010. They had PCS worthy of World Champions then. They couldn't do it and are now punished. I was also right about Smirnov. This guy is not good. Whenever they do 3T 3T sequence, he ALWAYS messed it up.
    If K/S want to move up the ladder, they would have to upgrade their TES. And they can't even do a decent twist and he can't do hard jumps. All that muscle for nothing. Worthless.

  2. #47
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    Hate for a team will aways cloud lucid judgment. K/S didn't perform well, it was their first competition so they did give up some points. They have a few things to fix before TEB, their programs are beautiful. The judges gave them the scores they deserved. They only lost by 5.29 points even with low levels and a bad performance.

    In 09-10 they were only together for THREE YEARS! No one should give up on a team after only 3+ years; it means most of the teams competing don't deserve the same chance if K/S are not getting it. Smirnov is one of the best male skaters out there, to deny that is silly. ALWAYS is a pretty strong word, here is the same program at the test skate, nice 3Ts and all; and that was AFTER his knee surgery. Although he does need a haircut.

    It too bad K/S don't get the same consideration the rest of the teams get. With as easy as the NHK trophy will be in pairs they need a silver in TEB to make the GPF, but that's the luck of the GP draw I guess.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mousepotato View Post

    It too bad K/S don't get the same consideration the rest of the teams get. With as easy as the NHK trophy will be in pairs they need a silver in TEB to make the GPF, but that's the luck of the GP draw I guess.
    why do they need silver ? they only need bronze they won silver medal here
    though Bazarova/Larionov has a higher chance of qualifying because of their draws

    with that said I'm impressed more by Stolbova/Klimov they improved this season, love their programs and big jumps

    Long Program:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Krt68n8uso&feature=plcp
    Last edited by sky_fly20; 11-03-2012 at 01:31 PM.

  4. #49
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    Who's hating on K/S? I have always said they are the best Russian team and deserved better. Even the judges thought so for a season. They are just too inconsistent and are now punished.
    Here, they lost 5+ points to a really really bad P/T. They aren't going to get anything better. That's the reality. Harsh, but true.

    Even hot mess T/M copycat, V/T, managed to go clean on a few occassion with crazy TES. K/S aren't WC material. V/T aren't either. But they got the support. And that's the fact. No one is hating on poor K/S, OK?

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post

    Even hot mess T/M copycat, V/T, managed to go clean on a few occassion with crazy TES. K/S aren't WC material. V/T aren't either. But they got the support. And that's the fact. No one is hating on poor K/S, OK?
    I do agree, K/S PCS has decreased, that could because they had not so good results at the WC, well see how they will be scored at TEB

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    why do they need silver ? they only need bronze they won silver medal here
    though Bazarova/Larionov has a higher chance of qualifying because of their draws
    The worst K/S can do is silver because they would have to wait for other teams to fail and they may not. If they get bronze they would be tied at 24 with a few teams.

    If MT/M doesn’t win gold in Japan they are out, they won’t do it with 22; but Bazarova had been injured so they may not skate well. If B/L get either 1st or 2nd in Japan (which considering the other teams, they will) they will have a total of either 24 or 26 points even if they get 3rd in Russia. If D/R get 2nd or 3rd they are still in it with 24-26 points.

    So it’s potentially K/S, D/C, MT/T and B/L will all be tied with 24 and if MT/M wins NHK they will win the tie breaker, then it’s up to whoever has the most points. So that’s why K/S need to avoid that 3rd place if at all possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Who's hating on K/S? I have always said they are the best Russian team and deserved better. Even the judges thought so for a season. They are just too inconsistent and are now punished.
    Here, they lost 5+ points to a really really bad P/T. They aren't going to get anything better. That's the reality. Harsh, but true.

    Even hot mess T/M copycat, V/T, managed to go clean on a few occassion with crazy TES. K/S aren't WC material. V/T aren't either. But they got the support. And that's the fact. No one is hating on poor K/S, OK?
    Punished?!? if they would have had a decent skate they would have been rewarded appropriately. If Smirnov hadn't of missed so much time before worlds because of his appendix they would have been on the podium at worlds. They were pretty close considering how sick he was. So obviously the judges are willing to give the points if they have a reason to.

    I think people make way too much out of fed support, being dropped, dumped or whatever. I think they need to really understand judging first. The judges had no problem giving V/T the sp score they deserved last season at worlds nor were they afraid of giving S/S the bronze at NHK. Everyone has been gifted from time to time (like P/T not getting deducted for the hand down in China) but usually if don't skate well....you don't get good scores. It’s a simple as that.

    Hopefully Moskvina will recognize the things they need to work on-like getting the highest levels and they will be better next time. I really think people are making too much of the first competition of the season for some of these teams.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Who's hating on K/S? I have always said they are the best Russian team and deserved better. Even the judges thought so for a season. They are just too inconsistent and are now punished.
    Here, they lost 5+ points to a really really bad P/T. They aren't going to get anything better. That's the reality. Harsh, but true.

    Even hot mess T/M copycat, V/T, managed to go clean on a few occassion with crazy TES. K/S aren't WC material. V/T aren't either. But they got the support. And that's the fact. No one is hating on poor K/S, OK?
    Well if K and S aren't WC worthy I would say no one right now really is worthy. Pang and Tong are "another" good Chinese team but really just a shadow of the Olympic champions. I understand the lure of Oly gold and that's why they are sticking around. V and T are a good Russian team but not great. Ssquared from Germany are very lucky as they tend to make mistakes but their style is either love or hate and sadly their "extra" GOE's are based on the same entrances and exits etc. None of these teams really deserve gold- maybe three or four or so silver medals? And the young Japanese and Chinese teams look really vulernable. I could see the Japanese crashing down to the bottom of top ten maybe even out with the much improved Americans and Canadians. I think if we are being fair we can't always have a G and G team in the mix otherwise that would be rather the norm and expected.

  8. #53
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    Stolbova injured her leg after her FS ? Riazanova had this band also on her leg at Skate Canada
    hopefully just a sprain and nothing serious

    http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/kkfksen.../613503?page=1

  9. #54
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    PAIRS LONG PROGRAM - VIDEOS & RESULT

    1. Qing PANG & Jian TONG (CHN) - 188.82 Free Program, 2nd Copy
    2. Yuko KAVAGUTI & Alexander SMIRNOV (RUS) - 183.53 Free Program, 2nd Copy
    3. Ksenia STOLBOVA & Fedor KLIMOV (RUS) - 172.55 Free Program, 2nd Copy
    4. Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS & Dylan MOSCOVITCH (CAN) - 172.36 Free Program
    5. Cheng PENG & Hao ZHANG (CHN) - 163.87 Free Program
    6. Wenting WANG & Yan ZHANG (CHN) - 143.52 Free Program

  10. #55
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    Punished?!? if they would have had a decent skate they would have been rewarded appropriately. If Smirnov hadn't of missed so much time before worlds because of his appendix they would have been on the podium at worlds. They were pretty close considering how sick he was. So obviously the judges are willing to give the points if they have a reason to.

    I think people make way too much out of fed support, being dropped, dumped or whatever. I think they need to really understand judging first. The judges had no problem giving V/T the sp score they deserved last season at worlds nor were they afraid of giving S/S the bronze at NHK. Everyone has been gifted from time to time (like P/T not getting deducted for the hand down in China) but usually if don't skate well....you don't get good scores. It’s a simple as that.

    Hopefully Moskvina will recognize the things they need to work on-like getting the highest levels and they will be better next time. I really think people are making too much of the first competition of the season for some of these teams.
    Well, you appeared to be more delusional than usual.
    K/S hasn't gotten the kind of PCS they did in 2010 despite having better programs since then. Even in 2011, they were clean and couldn't beat a flawed SS. No fed support, no bonus GOE, PCS.

    And P/T were even closer to the podium than K/S last year. With all of their problems.

    The point is this, if all skate clean, K/S would never be able to catch the top 3. And the top 3 have a record of skating clean at big events a few hundred percent more than K/S.

    They had their chance and they blew it. Now, no matter what they do, they will never be good enough.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Well if K and S aren't WC worthy I would say no one right now really is worthy. Pang and Tong are "another" good Chinese team but really just a shadow of the Olympic champions. I understand the lure of Oly gold and that's why they are sticking around. V and T are a good Russian team but not great. Ssquared from Germany are very lucky as they tend to make mistakes but their style is either love or hate and sadly their "extra" GOE's are based on the same entrances and exits etc. None of these teams really deserve gold- maybe three or four or so silver medals? And the young Japanese and Chinese teams look really vulernable. I could see the Japanese crashing down to the bottom of top ten maybe even out with the much improved Americans and Canadians. I think if we are being fair we can't always have a G and G team in the mix otherwise that would be rather the norm and expected.
    SS are worthy. They have big tricks and they delivered a few more times than K/S.
    V/T are worthy. Although they are gross and get inexplicable PCS.
    P/T are worthy. Haven't you seen their Olympics FS? That is something K/S would never be able to do.

    Even T/T are more worthy. They have equally gorgeous programs as K/S but they have better line, twist, upgrading their TES. Improving season by season.

    Funny you mentioned they might drop down to lower top 10. Their first world, with only a double twist, and had problems with jumps and throws, they still managed to get 9th. Unless the injury is so bad, I don't see them dropping that much. There aren't many pairs better than them.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    SS are worthy. They have big tricks and they delivered a few more times than K/S.
    V/T are worthy. Although they are gross and get inexplicable PCS.
    P/T are worthy. Haven't you seen their Olympics FS? That is something K/S would never be able to do.

    Even T/T are more worthy. They have equally gorgeous programs as K/S but they have better line, twist, upgrading their TES. Improving season by season.

    Funny you mentioned they might drop down to lower top 10. Their first world, with only a double twist, and had problems with jumps and throws, they still managed to get 9th. Unless the injury is so bad, I don't see them dropping that much. There aren't many pairs better than them.
    Then to be consistent I guess Flattfan would agree that T and M were worthy of Oly gold and Petrova and Tik worth of world's gold as well s Shitsikova and Naumov, Eltsova and her partner and the list goes on. I a m just saying S and S ain't no G and G.

  13. #58
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    I think P/T have very nice programs, the SP is especially sharp. Very good contrast between LP and SP. Hope Tong's knees can hold to World.

    I had high hope for V/T at the beginning, but I don't think they delivered. Their programs are way over the top and artificial. S/S surprised me to be so solid to start the season. I still love their Out of Africa the best. I think their innovation didn't extend to this year. All that draw attention are their costumes. I actually like the SP costumes.

    I'm not sure who to root, S/S, P/T or V/T. P/T are more appealing as overall but not sure if they can get all the jumps back. I kind of like S/S and P/T equally at this stage for different reasons.

  14. #59
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    Don't understand all the hating towards K/S. Granted they had some problems yesterday but they are more than capable of getting a world and olympic podium. I really enjoyed yesterdays performance, it had a lyrical style and built to a nice finish, there is no doubt they have improved since 2010. It's a real disappointment that there Clare de lune programme never received a worlds medal but errors they made in the short in both years cost them.

    I liked P/T but no way is their PCS above K/S. The programme strikes me as a rehash of their olympic programme (which I loved) to different music, she isn't the prettiest in the lifts and just noticed yesterday he is very wild when he throws her. Still their performance was much better than SA but his SBS jumps are a worry.

    Delighted for S/K getting their first GP medal, they have a different style to the other couples. I though they were going to struggle after a poor performance in Nice and been bet by a US couple I never heard of but they delivered yesterday with a nice PB.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Then to be consistent I guess Flattfan would agree that T and M were worthy of Oly gold and Petrova and Tik worth of world's gold as well s Shitsikova and Naumov, Eltsova and her partner and the list goes on. I a m just saying S and S ain't no G and G.
    T/M were worthy of that Olympic gold. They were very good. People forgot how good they were. I think V/T are a weaker version of T/M.
    G/G ain't no S/S. If G/G compete in this day and age, they would maybe crack top 10.

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