Transitions and jump landings | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Transitions and jump landings

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
How many different ways can one skater get into a double axel?

95 Jr Worlds SP spread eagle with knee bend, straight into 2A

1996 Worlds SP back outside counter (1A); double but not perfect at Centennial on Ice

96 Euros FS forward outside threes in both directions, step up from back inside edge

97 Worlds SP clockwise back crossovers, edge change to basic back outside edge approach (what I call the question mark approach; just slightly more complicated than the typical same-direction back crossovers)

97 Worlds LP bunny hop, bunny hop, half-inside axel, half-inside axel, opposite-direction half axel into lunge, directly up into 2A (failed, but wow on the difficulty!)

successful with much simpler approach at 97 Euros

That's a very interesting collection. Thanks for the research.

Hey, this lady was pretty good!

Well, this is 6.0, so the variety of entrances to the double Axel does not get x number of CoP points. Still, I can easily see that the judges would reward the fancy approaches in both the technical and the performance marks. It seems pretty clear in these examples that the more challenging the entrance the more likely the jump is to be unsuccessful. I suppose this is obvious. Every senior skater can do a double Axel. But can you do one preceded by elaborate steps, turns and moves in the field?

That said, I am not a big fan of difficulty for difficulty's sake. I don't think a 'Tano position adds anything of value to a jump, for instance. To me, it is like jumping with a chicken tied to your leg. Difficult, yes, but it takes away from the beauty of the jump done properly, with a long, flowing exit edge.

I will give the skater in these videos a +1 costume bonus in her first performance, though. Elly May Clampett meets Daisy Mae Yokum (nee Scraggs). :rock:
 

Bartek

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Five just isn't enough jump passes. Prejuv and Juv kids are doing 5 (usually doubles) jump passes with nice in betweens. 5 passes in a 4:10 program would look very empty. I would agree with potentially eliminating the 3 jump combo (unless it's X+1/2Lo+Y) as with ladies, most double loops at the end of the three jump is at minimum < and looks sloppy.

Yet, there are some who can do it well (or could do it) therefor the combo should not be eliminated. I love Miki's, Mao's and Yu-Na's three jump combos. At nowadays, Mao may have some problems with it but why eliminate it? She can get it back like it was in the past. Her 3F+2Lo+2Lo is a difficult element with steps going in and tano variation and I am actually very happy to see Mao improve her technical content even if it hasn't been totally clean yet. In her first senior years Mao could do such combos in her sleep, then she lost it and now she's getting it back, that is good. I'm happy she's upping the ante.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I just think the 3 jump combo is an element that's essentially mandatory (or you're giving up points) and rarely done well. And when it is done well it isn't all that impressive to me. By the end skaters have almost no runout.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Best 3 jumps combo by a lady

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xHcW7L2nOfs#t=188s

The transition going into the jump, the flow coming out. Just perfect.
The judges lowballed this combo big time, half of them gave her 0 GOE. The other half +1 GOE.
By today standard, it would be +2 or +3 GOE.

Shizuka was one of the most underrated skaters of all time, despite being a WC and OC. I think she was far superior to her peers but only beat them when others made mistakes. I'm glad she earned the most important titles in the sport. And, yes, that combo was great. :)
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
I agree with this point. "Transitions" into jumps just make you mess up the jump. One of the flaws of the CoP, in my opinion.

well not really. If you can skate fast into a jump and while doing rockers or a hold a spiral coming out of it, then all the more power to you. the fault it that skaters are thinking that adding transitions before and after jumps will help them with the points, when in reality a rotated jump with lots of speed coming in and out would actually be more beneficial.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
I think that also Yu-Na's 2A+2T+2Lo in her Olympics FS was one of the few "good" 3-jumps combos! She actually received only +1 and +2...

The judges are not generous with GOE to 3-jump combos, because the flow out of even the well-executed ones is not as good compared to the flow out of a well-executed solo or 2-jump combination.

Yu-Na actually fulfilled quite of the bullet points to get GOE: difficult entry, varied position in the air (tano double loop), as well as superior flow in and out and great height/distance on the axel (can't really get great height/distance on a double toe or double loop). Would've been enough to justify +2, but some judges may have disagreed about the flow out so they opted for just +1.
 
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