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Thread: 2012 election

  1. #1
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    2012 election

    First thread?????? Well, Ma has the first woman senator to send to the senate ever from MA. It took til 2012. In 1984 Geraldine Ferraro was the first female VP candidate. It did not happen again until darah Palin ran in 2008, Both unsucessful bids. There is a huge need to turn leadership from testosterone driven to estrogen with a touch of testosterone. We do not have enough women to change the tenor of hatred in DC and break up the old boy network. Scott Brown, not a bad guy is conceeding. I can't imagine anyone much craes in the US tonight here about FS or GP assignments.

    I am surprised to find no political threads and very little how are the NJ and NY people voting. Please people, tell us what is new and historic in this state of yours. It seems it will be an all nighter with the Presidential election. All I know is Republicans must take Ohio to win, and every Repub Prez that has won the whitehouse, has taken Ohio. I guess that means Bush I and Bush 2 twice and Reagan and Nixon since the 70's Who am I missing?

    I imagine many others around the world watch the returns with great interest. I beg God to return, as we in the US are in trouble. We are no longer the leaders in the world in anything, and we have lost our moral compass that lead the world in ethics, and the dream of a middle class where most do well, and few are rich and few are poor. We have lost what made us the dream country to live in, and others take our place. The winner will have 16 trillion in debt, a fractured in half electorate and a DC divided and vitriolic-more than any time in history. I was hoping for a resounding beating of the Koch funded tea bagger millionaires that took cotnrol in 2010 and blocked all compromise, all legislation to help the middle class. They seemed to hate this president so thoroughly and it was obvious his skin color was a part of it. Sad to say, but so true. I was surprised at comments four years ago. We have a not so rich lawyer up against a very rich lawyer with an elevator in his La Jolla garage. He has done well at debates and gotten many confused, fed up folks to give him a chance. He may win...electorally he is ahead with all the swing states seemingly swinging. He was my governor and he flip flops like crazy and he scares me as I do not know who he is (right now -today even_. Obama may not be exciting anymore but he has been consistent on the issues, when he takes a stand. B for honesty but C for leadership. He tried to conciliate and he seems to have not believed the caucus who said in 2008 to the cameras-"we'll do what it takes to get him out," And they have done it all. We will see. I am not staying up all night. Any exciting news from your state-like first time female senators? That gives me hope. When you educate a woman, you change a family. Hillary, I wish you were not retiring. She has been among the best stateswomen of all time. I was surprised then proud. Women unite!

    Until we get back three words on our goods we have a poor, sad future.

    "Made in America" from paper clips to clothes, to commodities.

    I still see the youth do not get it. Mfg is not old hat...it 's for the masses, as high tech is for the few. May God Bless America and weigh in from your state if your are bored of the topics in the edge...not much going on there tonight. Women will change the world because we are about love, more than power. It is a shame so few will wander into the political fray which is so dark at present. If there is a God, we so need him now, regardless who has the crown for 4 years. Amen.

  2. #2
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Congratulations President Obama!

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    Obama's Victory Speech was very inspirational!

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    Thanks for the link to the speech. I had just radio, and I fell asleep before the speech. Congratulations to President Obama!

    I hope that now everyone can work together for the common good.

    I'm listening to the speech now. It's wonderful. One thing Obama says is so significant: right now, there are people in parts of the world who are risking their lives for the privilege of being able to argue about issues that matter to them. At the moment in this country, the two sides are so contentious, and sometimes we get a bit fed up by it. But in one way, all this yelling is the indication of something wonderful. We don't all have to think the same thing! Many people don't realize how astonishing a privilege that is. While I hope we also retain the capacity to listen to one another, just being able to speak out fearlessly is a wonderful thing to have and to witness. I know that we're not the only country where such a right exists, and I give thanks for all places where people enjoy that privilege. But today, I hope you will all pardon me if I give special thanks for its existence in America.
    Last edited by Olympia; 11-07-2012 at 11:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I hope that now everyone can work together for the common good.
    The problem is that the country is nearly cleanly divided on what would actually be for the common good. With the house still controlled by Republicans I expect a very contentious couple of years. I confess that I am glad there will be a lot of debate! Laws get shoved through too easily when they are not discussed sufficiently. The attitude that we should pass a bill and then read it later should not be accepted.

    Edit to add: A mostly neutral column that illustrates some of the difficulty currently facing legislators: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ichael-barone#
    Last edited by MoonlightSkater; 11-07-2012 at 12:21 PM.

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    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonlightSkater View Post
    The problem is that the country is nearly cleanly divided on what would actually be for the common good. With the house still controlled by Republicans I expect a very contentious couple of years. I confess that I am glad there will be a lot of debate! Laws get shoved through too easily when they are not discussed sufficiently. The attitude that we should pass a bill and then read it later should not be accepted.

    Edit to add: A mostly neutral column that illustrates some of the difficulty currently facing legislators: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ichael-barone#
    Thanks for posting that; I thought it was a thoughtful piece. I just shared it with my FB friends (trying to keep my political posts informative and relatively non-partisan). It is a bit disheartening to me; I have friends and family who are on both sides of the fence and I have grown weary of the memes, slapstick and mockery that is replacing thoughtful dialogue and debate.

    But yes Moonlight, I'm still glad there is going to be some debate, no one view should be rejected or dismissed.

  7. #7
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Congratulations from north of the border (I was glued to my TV, too )..especially to all those women, and particularly Elizabeth Warren !

    Woo-hoo !

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Even my Republican son voted for Elizabeth. (I also have a Democratic son) Republican son's vote this year was to vote against all incumbents--which included Scott Brown.

    As to the country being evenly divided, an acquaintance remarked that this is an artifact of our 2 party system. If either party gets too much of a lead in any voting year, the other party shifts to accommodate, and we end up evenly split again.

    On thinking about it, I suspect there's something to that.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 11-08-2012 at 07:07 AM.

  9. #9
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Even my Republican son voted for Elizabeth. (I also have a Democratic son) Republican son's vote this year was to vote against all incumbents--which included Scott Brown.

    As to the country being evenly divided, an acquaintance remarked that this is an artifact of our 2 party system. If either party gets too much of a lead in any voting year, the other party shifts to accommodate, and we end up evenly split again.

    On thinking about it, I suspect there's something to that.
    Well the 2-party system isn't new, of course, nor is this divide, but it is a bit disconcerting how much more divided we are as a country and how polarizing those sides are. When one thinks about it Eisenhower probably would have not made it out of the Republican primary today, he would be accused of being a big spender and depending too much on government to solve problems. Ronald Reagan might as be a liberal in some people's eyes. At any given time 50 (or 49, rather) percent of the country is always unhappy about the state of our country. I'm part of the 1 percent (not that 1 percent) that sees validity in both sides, so I have a really hard time with the division. It makes it really hard to have a proper conversation.

    My husband tends to vote against incumbents as well. He feels people should not make a career out of politics.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 11-08-2012 at 11:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Well the 2-party system isn't new, of course, nor is this divide, but it is a bit disconcerting how much more divided we are as a country and how polarizing those sides are. When one thinks about it Eisenhower probably would have not made it out of the Republican primary today, he would be accused of being a big spender and depending too much on government to solve problems. Ronald Reagan might as be a liberal in some people's eyes. At any given time 50 (or 49, rather) percent of the country is always unhappy about the state of our country. I'm part of the 1 percent (not that 1 percent) that sees validity in both sides, so I have a really hard time with the division. It makes it really hard to have a proper conversation.

    My husband tends to vote against incumbents as well. He feels people should not make a career out of politics.
    I'm a socially and economically conservative environmentalist libertarian who is in the middle on foreign policy...... I usually see good points and bad points to every candidate. That said, I tended to go the economically conservative route this time around.

    I do tend to think that a Reagan-style conservative might have had a chance because even though he was very conservative politically (after switching in the mid-60s to Republican), he was very, very likeable, and I'm sure that helped him. Romney's biggest failing may have been to come across as not being so likeable, and Obama's greatest campaign success may have been the character assasination of his opponent. Some of the debates struck me as very much like a high school popularity contest instead of an actual debate. Lots of rhetoric with very little actual substance.

  11. #11
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonlightSkater View Post
    I'm a socially and economically conservative environmentalist libertarian who is in the middle on foreign policy...... I usually see good points and bad points to every candidate. That said, I tended to go the economically conservative route this time around.

    I do tend to think that a Reagan-style conservative might have had a chance because even though he was very conservative politically (after switching in the mid-60s to Republican), he was very, very likeable, and I'm sure that helped him. Romney's biggest failing may have been to come across as not being so likeable, and Obama's greatest campaign success may have been the character assasination of his opponent. Some of the debates struck me as very much like a high school popularity contest instead of an actual debate. Lots of rhetoric with very little actual substance.
    ITA.

    I did not vote for Romney (or Obama, for that matter, went third party), but I do feel that the reduction of him to these memes (47 percent, binders full of women, etc, greedy rich man who evades taxes) did hurt him. On the other hand Obama gained this meme as a fresh,edge and hipster president (being on Reddit or witty Tumbler posts) that really helped him get key votes, namely the youth vote.

    In the end, I found that both candidates and their policies did not really stand out. They are both more centralist the either side acknowledges, which makes the division even more irritating.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 11-08-2012 at 01:38 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonlightSkater View Post
    I'm a socially and economically conservative environmentalist libertarian who is in the middle on foreign policy...... I usually see good points and bad points to every candidate. That said, I tended to go the economically conservative route this time around.

    I do tend to think that a Reagan-style conservative might have had a chance because even though he was very conservative politically (after switching in the mid-60s to Republican), he was very, very likeable, and I'm sure that helped him. Romney's biggest failing may have been to come across as not being so likeable, and Obama's greatest campaign success may have been the character assasination of his opponent. Some of the debates struck me as very much like a high school popularity contest instead of an actual debate. Lots of rhetoric with very little actual substance.
    I'm sorry to say that's not new either. I have a strong memory of George H.W. Bush saying in the debate that Michael Dukakis "won't say the Pledge of Allegiance." What kind of silly taunt is that? And Bush was perhaps the most qualified presidential candidate, in terms of range of public service job experience, of the last 60 years and more--he certainly didn't need to resort to that. So this is kind of the way debates have moved in recent history. I'm sorry to see it coming from both sides. My favorite debater of recent times has been Bill Clinton, who manages to keep the debate on substance whenever he talks. (I'm not talking about whether you agree with him politically, which I happen to do. He's just great at using information to make a point.) I voted for Obama, but I think he's not a sterling debater at all. And Romney probably is, coming as he does from the business world. I wonder whether the advent of televised debates was what lowered the standard. Candidates feel they have to come up with zingers that stay in viewers' minds.

  13. #13
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I think it comes down more to the fact that these guys all have writers that do all the work for them... so they just "ad lib" as much to choose which line to put where. But debates have ALWAYS been ugly for president. We just have more access to it.

  14. #14
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I'm sorry to say that's not new either. I have a strong memory of George H.W. Bush saying in the debate that Michael Dukakis "won't say the Pledge of Allegiance." What kind of silly taunt is that? And Bush was perhaps the most qualified presidential candidate, in terms of range of public service job experience, of the last 60 years and more--he certainly didn't need to resort to that. So this is kind of the way debates have moved in recent history. I'm sorry to see it coming from both sides. My favorite debater of recent times has been Bill Clinton, who manages to keep the debate on substance whenever he talks. (I'm not talking about whether you agree with him politically, which I happen to do. He's just great at using information to make a point.) I voted for Obama, but I think he's not a sterling debater at all. And Romney probably is, coming as he does from the business world. I wonder whether the advent of televised debates was what lowered the standard. Candidates feel they have to come up with zingers that stay in viewers' minds.
    LOL, you have a point, Olympia -- jabs in debates have always been around.

    I guess what stands out to me is that clearly these two don't respect each at AT ALL. I would even argue that they absolutely despite each other. And unfortunately, that has extended to their supporters. I am actually so happy to get civil dialogue on Golden Skate cause my Facebook feed has been t-o-x-i-c! Thanks GS friends!

    For the record, I do agree with you about Bill Clinton. He was always well-spoken and I think looking back, I think Republicans have some respect for the guy (with a grumble, of course). I love this piece from The Atlantic about what Bill Clinton was given for his speech for the DNC and what he actually wrote: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/polit...e-wrote/56562/

    As a writer, I appreciate anyone who knows how to write well, regardless of his or her politics.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 11-08-2012 at 07:06 PM.

  15. #15
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    depends on where you are in the US... a lot of Alaskan reps and dems alike aren't keen on Clinton (mainly because he let Gore taint his judgement where we're concerned).

    I think there's a respect for each other when it comes to Obama and romney, but more for their skills than each other as a human being.

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