Programs that will still be talked about in 20+ years? | Golden Skate

Programs that will still be talked about in 20+ years?

Butterscotch17

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
So often, I hear people bring up old programs from a very long time ago. I wasn't a fan of skating back then, but the programs must have been something for people to still talk about them now, so many years later. I hear a lot of people mention programs from Torvill and Dean, Toller Cranston, Katarina Witt, and Michelle Kwan (though she wasn't that long ago) to name a few.

So my question is, what programs, if any, from this Olympic quadrennial are good enough that people will still be talking about them 20+ years from now? (Granted, I know there is one more seaon still to go, and I'm sure there will be some great programs in the Olympic season, but from what we have seen so far.) Have we seen any programs that will go down among the all-time greats, that we will still bring up in conversations many years down the road?

Two come to mind for me: Daisuke Takahashi's 'Blues for Klook' and Davis & White's 'Die Fledermaus'. You may or may not agree on these two, but what are your opinions? Are there any programs from this quadrennial that will be talked about for years to come?
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Great thread! Had Ashley won the WC last year I think her Swan Lake would be remembered. That's been the most memorable program to me and really evoked strong opinions from fans, both positive and negative.
 

jenaj

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Aug 17, 2003
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Two come to mind for me: Daisuke Takahashi's 'Blues for Klook' and Davis & White's 'Die Fledermaus'. You may or may not agree on these two, but what are your opinions? Are there any programs from this quadrennial that will be talked about for years to come?

I agree on these two, but can't think of any others.
 

Mirunna

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Die Fledermaus was on my mind when I saw the title. I think Daisuke's "In the garden of souls" Sp is much more praised than his LP but I like them both a lot. Carolina's LP was one of the nicest program since Vancouver but I'm not sure it's gonna be mentioned in 20 years mostly because oh her lower jump content. Maybe S/S Pina, for it's innovation
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Hopefully the good ones!! Die Fliedermaus David and White, Blues for Klook Takahashi, Pina S/S hopefully. I think ladies is tougher maybe Kostner's from 2012. So well recieved all year but I guess few are talking about it now!! But maybe when her jumping level isn't so big it may grow?

FOr negative programs It's from the previous cycle but how about Aboriginal D/S?!? It has never been performed at a GP or Euros or worlds but you know about I/K's Ghost already! Wowza!!
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
I hope S/S's programs in general, and Pina in particular, will be remembered further down the road. They have such a diverse and innovative body of work.

Possibly Dai's programs from last year, or if I'm allowed to cheat a bit, the fabulous La Strada.

Honestly, I have found most of the skating in recent years kind of forgettable, even from skaters I like. There are programs I'm always happy to re-watch (not necessarily winning programs), but few of them are from the last few seasons. The technical side of skating is being pushed (in some of the disciplines, at least) - but with so many people having learned how to play the system, there is way too much cookie-cutter IJS stuff, with the difference being the varying levels of difficulty. And while occasionally we still get something that is IJS-friendly and artistically interesting, a lot of the programs seems interchangeable to me. But then, brilliant programs in general aren't that common; if there were too many of them, they wouldn't be as memorable.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
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Jul 26, 2003
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As well as Dai's programs & D&W's Die Fledermaus.

I know I'm going to be talking about seeing D&W's Giselle SD at Skate America live for a long time :love:

I think V&M's Carmen will be talked about in 20 years. People either love it or hate it, and controversy definitely gets and keeps people talking about a program. Toller Cranston was rather controversial in the day.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
IJS has made this extremely difficult! I agree with that. Everyone just has to do so much the same to get good levels and real individuality is rare. The ability to focus on certain things and make them really individual to you over someone else has been lessened I think. Step or spins or whatever.

Forgot Abbott and Muse FS. So good!
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
I agree about "Die Fledermaus" and maybe (but I'm not sure, because he didn't win WC) "Blues for Klook", and I think that Kostner may be remembered for being the only lady winning WC without big jumps these days but I will always remember her grace, elegance and the masterpiece choreography for her Mozart FS! :love: Yes, we will maybe remember S/S's programs in general, not specific ones, because they are all so beautiful! (excpet, maybe, this season's FS, but it has time to grow and improve...) And I have the feeling that V/T's program won't be really remembered, because there's nothing new or original in their programs, they are "just" another great Russian pair, like T/M, B/S, K/D, really nothing new... (But I may be wrong!)
 

russell30

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 14, 2004
I agree about "Die Fledermaus" and maybe (but I'm not sure, because he didn't win WC) "Blues for Klook", and I think that Kostner may be remembered for being the only lady winning WC without big jumps these days but I will always remember her grace, elegance and the masterpiece choreography for her Mozart FS! :love: Yes, we will maybe remember S/S's programs in general, not specific ones, because they are all so beautiful! (excpet, maybe, this season's FS, but it has time to grow and improve...) And I have the feeling that V/T's program won't be really remembered, because there's nothing new or original in their programs, they are "just" another great Russian pair, like T/M, B/S, K/D, really nothing new... (But I may be wrong!)

Duschesnay's "Missing" FD comes to mind

Lu Chen "the best of the Piano concerto No:2's FS"

Arakawa's "Turandot"

Lambiel "Poeta"

Kwan "Taj Mahal"

Yagudin "Winter"

Nikodinov "Just For You"

Yu Na "Danse Macabre and possibly OO7"

Mao "Fantasia for Violin & Orchestra"

Caro "Mozart piano concerto 23 last years FS"

Stojko "Dragon FS"

Rahkamo Kokko "Borsalino SD"

Pechalat Bourzat "spanish OD from 08"

Delobel Schoenfelder "Flight of the Dove FD 06"

Droiazko Vanagas "Spente Le Stelle"

Gordeeva Grinkov "Moonlight Sonata"
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
I think V&M's Carmen will be talked about in 20 years. People either love it or hate it, and controversy definitely gets and keeps people talking about a program. Toller Cranston was rather controversial in the day.
I don't get the sense that people are that passionate about it, or about V/M's programs in general (other than uber wars, which most of us don't engage in). And I think because there have been so many other Carmens, it won't be remembered to the same extent as, say, T/D's Bolero, or what the Duschenays did. Personally, I found the crotch grabbing and some of the lifts vulgar, but otherwise nothing about it stuck with me.

I don't find Die Fledermaus memorable, either - well, the operetta is great fun, but D/W's version was no more interesting to me than Akiko's, and Akiko is far more charming. OTOH, Bollywood is memorable, but that's not in the current Olympic cycle.

Also, I don't think good/difficult necessarily means memorable. I'd wager there's a reason some of the top current skaters have not yet been mentioned in this thread.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
People are talking about THIS quadrenium. :)

There are so few that have been outstanding and memorable programs beyond the few people have brought up. If Akiko gets her s---t together, her O program may be in that group as it's really original and exciting.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I don't get the sense that people are that passionate about it, or about V/M's programs in general (other than uber wars, which most of us don't engage in). And I think because there have been so many other Carmens, it won't be remembered to the same extent as, say, T/D's Bolero, or what the Duschenays did. Personally, I found the crotch grabbing and some of the lifts vulgar, but otherwise nothing about it stuck with me.
Heart. Broken, Buttercup. Heart broken.
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Not to be a wet blanket, and as much as I liked D and W's DF, there has been no 20 year memorial programs yet if I understand the criteria. That would be on an order of magnitude such as T and Dean's Bolero.
Personally, for a once in a 20 year program, I am gonna have to see another D/W Olympic performance like Phantom.....
Chris who cant remember what V/M skated to at the last Olympics....
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
This season? I see two potentially great programs: D/W's Giselle SD and V/M's Carmen LP. Both of them are, given their past history, probably ongoing works in progress, so it's really too soon to tell. And the Carmen program is hampered by the same thing I thought the Pima program was hampered by: they impose a smattering of modern dance moves as signifiers (Look Ma! See how innovative we are!), rather then an organic melding of ice skating/dancing and modern dance. But as has been pointed out in the past, that may be due to the rules, which are in some ways rather conservative.

But I do think both D/W's Bollywood and V/M's Mahler will be talked about in 20 years.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Heart. Broken, Buttercup. Heart broken.
Whereas I was shocked that you were so enthusiastic about it... I am all for V/M trying to do something different and edgy. I think there are better ways to go about achieving that goal, however.

I think there were more memorable programs in the previous Olympic cycle, certainly in the singles disciplines. In pairs I mainly find S/S memorable, so that's a wash, and most of my favorite dance programs were from the Olympic season, so I'll give the dancers another year to get it right.

I wonder if in the long run the Kerrs might be considered more memorable than some of the teams that outscored them; they had some distinctive programs and their own style, and I think that's something that stays with people over time.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
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Well, it does matter what you personally remember....I would call T&D's program a 70 year memory program (As long as you live!) (No DF, is not at that level, and we haven't had any for a while.) At my age, 20 years is nothing. 20 years ago was the early 1990's-and the Duchesnay's Missing program and Klimova & Ponomarenko's Air...and Engi & Toth's Miss Piggy exhibition. For me, Boitano's Napoleon and Les Patineurs are up there with Bolero & Paso Doble.)

Heck you can still get people heated up enough to fight about the Brian's programs and Nancy vs Oksana. But I already find Nancy & Oksana's programs slipping away from me. I can remember what Oksana skated to, but when I see someone else skating to the The Swan, I don't think that was Oksana's music, and I sure don't think of her whenever someone skates to show tunes. When I turn to youtube, I don't think to type them in and look at them.

The Kerrs definitely had some memorable stuff, but not in this quad (which was the original question), because they retired in 2011. I've got to say, I already don't remember what they skated to that year, especially because they were not able to skate at Worlds due to injury, and that was the first year of the quad. Likewise I&K's memorable program to Schindler's List was in 2009-2010...hence in the last quad.

So we're saying for 2010-2011, 2011-2012, and 2012-2013 was there anything memorable as a program for you. And I've got to say, not much. Certainly not much in singles for me...maybe Fernandez's & Leonova's Pirates and Dai's Souls & Blues for Klook and Jason Brown's LP in 2011 (notice that none of these skaters won their respective worlds).

Usually what sticks in my mind are the OSPs/ODs. In the last quad, there were a lot of very memorable ODs, and the Kerrs Erin Shore was definitely one of them, as was D&W's Bollywood and Delobel & Schoenfelder's Breton Dance, and perhaps V&M's Farrucas. I think the folk dance theme brought out a lot of interesting dances, and I thoroughly enjoyed those 2 seasons of ODs. I love seeing types of dances that I haven't seen done on skates translated to the ice :love: However, this is the first year that the SD's have brought anything much to the table in the way of striking programs. Who can remember any of the 2010-2011 waltz SD's, and the Latin SD's from last season weren't very memorable either. Part of that is due to the fact that we've seen lots of waltzes over the years, and lots of Latin on Ice; they all run together.

I definitely don't think a program has to be a winning program to be memorable; Toller Cranston never won Worlds.
 
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Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Hopefully the good ones!! Die Fliedermaus David and White, Blues for Klook Takahashi, Pina S/S hopefully. I think ladies is tougher maybe Kostner's from 2012. So well recieved all year but I guess few are talking about it now!! But maybe when her jumping level isn't so big it may grow?

FOr negative programs It's from the previous cycle but how about Aboriginal D/S?!? It has never been performed at a GP or Euros or worlds but you know about I/K's Ghost already! Wowza!!

I think before D and W's programs, V and M deserved to be remembered more for their Oly long program; I am not sure Ssquared are really a memorable team andthus performance though they are good. G and G's Oly lps both may be remembered; Baiul's Oly short program, almost all of Kwan's long programs after 1995 and Maria Butyrskaya's Otonal world winning performance wills tand out in my mind. I disagree that B and S from Russia should be grouped with many other world winning pairs from Russia or prior Russian teams.
 
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