Steven Spielberg's Lincoln | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Steven Spielberg's Lincoln

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Aug 16, 2009
Thanks for the reports, sillylionlove (Are you a Narnia fan? Love your screen name!) and Kitt. As for the battle scenes, I'm still recovering from the ones in Glory. I'll be on the alert, if I get to see this. Otherwise, I'm so glad to hear that this is so well and faithfully executed. Great to hear that Spader is in it. He's wonderful, and one of the best things about him is his voice. I'm also eager to see Hal Holbrook, someone who's been involved with Lincoln depictions before.

What did you two think of Sally Field? She certainly had a challenge with Mary Lincoln, who was in such a difficult position as a nervy, unpopular, deeply besieged First Lady. She was made to be a society belle, a political hostess, a facilitator for the advancement of her husband's career, all of which she had done effectively up to that time, and suddenly there she was in perhaps the most thankless circumstances a President's wife was ever in through all of American history. (Maybe excepting poor Pat Nixon.) She wasn't just too extravagant for America's wartime tastes. She was a Southerner herself, with brothers serving in the Confederate Army. And then she lost her son. If Sally Field can convey all that, my hat's off to her.
 

sillylionlove

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There is the opening battle scene (similar to saving private Ryan) and one towards the end. There really aren't any other major battle scenes in the movie. i also think Tommy Lee Jones and David Straithern (sp) should be nominated as well because they were terrific!! The funniest scene to me was when he talked about Ethan Allen and the picture of George Washington....that's a true story as Ethan Allen really did say that. . My husband who is a history buff said that it was one. Of the most historically acurate movies he has even seen. Sally field was excellent as well. She portrayed the part well. Although I didn't realize that Mary Todd Lincoln was so crazy! I also like how the movie dealt with his assignation. In case you were wondering the movie is based in his effort to pass the 13th amendment. The movie clocks in at about 2 1/2 hours but seriously from the first 30 seconds you are drawn in and the movie never lags or has down time. When it was over I was like that didn't seem like two and a half hours!! And about an hour and a half into the movie after drinking thy super large soda I had to use the restroom but since I didn't want to miss anything I held it in....yes the movie was that good!!
 
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Tonichelle

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What did you two think of Sally Field? She certainly had a challenge with Mary Lincoln, who was in such a difficult position as a nervy, unpopular, deeply besieged First Lady. She was made to be a society belle, a political hostess, a facilitator for the advancement of her husband's career, all of which she had done effectively up to that time, and suddenly there she was in perhaps the most thankless circumstances a President's wife was ever in through all of American history. (Maybe excepting poor Pat Nixon.) She wasn't just too extravagant for America's wartime tastes. She was a Southerner herself, with brothers serving in the Confederate Army. And then she lost her son. If Sally Field can convey all that, my hat's off to her.

And then after her husband died another son finally had her committed. She got the mark of being crazy... If she gets mentioned at all... I only remember learning about her on my own, she was not a first lady who was talked about by school teachers.
 
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Aug 16, 2009
Yeah, that must have been an incredible body blow, to have Robert commit her. In those days, who knew where the line was between desperation and outright illness, and she sounds as if she were at best emotionally difficult, and at worst actually around the bend--and there weren't therapists in those days, nor was there medication (except laudanum, an addictive opiate). It's hard to know which of the two to sympathize with, her or Robert. Probably both.

Interesting story about Robert, from several sources: Near the end of the war, he was on a train that lurched, and he was almost thrown off. He was grabbed and kept safe by someone standing nearby, who turned out to be Edwin Booth. Lincoln wasn't that well known by sight, so Booth didn't recognize him, but Lincoln certainly recognized Booth. Later Booth was told whom he had saved. There's a poignant line about it in the Wiki article: "The incident was said to have been of some comfort to Edwin Booth following his brother's assassination of the President."
 
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Kitt

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Yeah, that must have been an incredible body blow, to have Robert commit her. In those days, who knew where the line was between desperation and outright illness, and she sounds as if she were at best emotionally difficult, and at worst actually around the bend--and there weren't therapists in those days, nor was there medication (except laudanum, an addictive opiate). It's hard to know which of the two to sympathize with, her or Robert. Probably both."


I didn't know much about Mrs. Lincoln previously, except that she had migraines. Having had these, I can attest that you might be driven crazy by them (luckily in our time we have wonderful medication). So I sympathize with her. And I think Sally Field did a very fine job with the role.
 
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Aug 16, 2009
I can imagine. Added to her other problems, the migraines would certainly have complicated matters and added to the tension. And she may have been one of those brittle, mercurial personalities who don't tend to do well in stressful, unpredictable situations. Add to that the fact that she was sitting next to her husband when he was shot and killed. I wouldn't have been a bastion of serenity in such a situation.

I've been reading up on first ladies, and one impressive one from this era is Lucy Hayes, known to history as Lemonade Lucy because she was a temperance supporter. She was also a firm abolitionist from the beginning, as was her husband, Rutherford Hayes (who served from 1877-1881). He was an officer in the Civil War, and she visited him often at the front. This woman was made of sterner stuff.
 

Tonichelle

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I didn't know much about Mrs. Lincoln previously, except that she had migraines. Having had these, I can attest that you might be driven crazy by them (luckily in our time we have wonderful medication). So I sympathize with her. And I think Sally Field did a very fine job with the role.

Both Lincoln and Todd Lincoln suffered from them... I'm guessing it was stress plus the medicine of the day that plagued them...

I'm more apt to believe that Mary was not insane, despressed after all she'd been through sure, but not insane.
 

Johar

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Dec 16, 2003
Lincoln is now showing in our theater! Yay! Was dismayed to see people calling him racists, etc.
 

Tonichelle

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Lincoln is now showing in our theater! Yay! Was dismayed to see people calling him racists, etc.
That's how we're taught today, and I think it's shocking my generation to even find out that Lincoln didn't become president just to free teh slaves - and that the Civil War was not about slavery as far as he was concerned. In society today that makes him racist.
 
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Clearly Lincoln's thoughts underwent a change. Frederick Douglass met with him several times and observed as much. By the way, Douglass met with Lincoln at the White House. At that time he was one of the first African Americans, if not the very first, to be an invited guest at the White House. This indicates that although Lincoln had some of the limitations of his era, he pushed through them further than many people of his time. There were certainly more ardent abolitionists than Lincoln, but he came to understand his obligations as a man and as a leader. A sentence that I believe comes from his debates with Stephen Douglas, which is quoted in Aaron Copland's "A Lincoln Portrait" is "It is the same spirit that says, ‘You work and toil and earn bread, and I’ll eat it.’ " That sounds like a man who sees the injustice of slave labor.
 

Tonichelle

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I'm not saying he was for slavery, but when he ran/entered his presidency he had no intention of abolishing slavery, and at the start of the War his thoughts were not about freeing slaves. Yes, he was thought to be the president that was going to do it because he ran under the party that was pushing for abolishing slavery. Lincoln believed it was the States that had to do that. He was just against allowing it in the new states. The foremost reason he declared war of any kind was because he felt he needed to keep the Union in one piece. Ironically, he went in believing he would continue to uphold the States' Power... and he ultimately destroyed it - rightly or wrongly. He busted down the door for "Big Government" in a way.

He certainly was not a racist for his day, and I don't think he should be seen as such. His job was much bigger than race wars. Unfortunately the people he "left in charge" after his death saw it in a more petty light and I truly believe they are the reason we took so long to get where we are now - and yes I realize racism still exists, it will always exist in some form - but everyone was fighting a losing battle in the 1860s and years leading up to and out of it... Johnson should have followed the outline Lincoln laid out for healing. Instead he set out with a vengence and everyone suffered.
 

Tonichelle

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Anyone watch(ing) the Oprah interview with Steven, Daniel, and Sally? It's interesting to hear how Spielberg was ready to drop Sally due to her age and how they didn't want to use prothetics to make her younger looking than Daniel (Mary was 10 years younger than Lincoln) and she fought for it and it was Daniel Day-Lewis who kept her in the part. Very cool.

The whole thing was very very good - when it wasn't the *Oprah show* and she just let them talk.
 
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Aug 16, 2009
How lovely! Thanks for calling our attention to this, Toni. Sorry I missed it. For some reason I didn't recall that Mary was so much younger than Abe. It's great that Day-Lewis insisted on retaining Field for the part.
 

Tonichelle

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I didn't either - probably because she looks so "old" in her most famous portrait (which I think was taken after Abe died?).

Sally made sure to say that Spielberg was heartbroken believing that she wouldn't be able to play her (when it cast her in 2005 it was a non issue as they were going with Liam Neeson at the time and she was a bit younger lol).
 

CoyoteChris

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Dec 4, 2004
I am going to try and see it this week. I am going to be interested in the demographics in the theatre, for one thing. (No vampires or car chases or blazing automatic weapons or monsters) As for the IMDB forums, I liked the comments from the folks over the pond. But hey, half of the young Brits can not tell you which WAR the Battle of Britain was fought in.....I would be suprised to see many youngins in the theatre. To them, Vietnam is just a name in the history books....but the Civil War? Hey, I was THERE!:laugh:
 

Ladskater

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Jul 28, 2003
Yes, my sister saw it and my mom and my brother. They all say it is outstanding. Unfortunately my husband and I have not been able to see it yet. I hope it will be showing for another week. Maybe we can go this weekend. Thanks for the clip.
 

Ladskater

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Ignorance always breeds contempt. Most of these people sound as though they slept through history class. I am a Canadian and even I know a lot about the Civil war and Abraham Lincoln and the struggles of the black Americans to gain their freedom from slavery. I think this movie will be well received all over the world.
 

Tonichelle

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I think the problem stems from how Lincoln has been talked about and taught for decades in this country. He's personified as this larger than life perfect figure. He's not taught to be a human who had faults and limits and some such.

Listening to Spielberg and Day-Lewis talk about him made me feel they "get it" though and that they wanted to show him as the man not the Myth, not the Monument. It was a great interview. Sadly with Field Oprah wanted to rehash old topics and not more on Field's view on her character and the history. Just that Field has always wanted to play her.
 

CoyoteChris

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Dec 4, 2004
Just saw the movie. I think it is a must see and see it at the theatre so you can appreciate the acting. I usually only go to two or three movies a year at the theatre and see a few at home on DVD and I am a very harsh critic of Hollywood, but this is one film they got right. Acadamy Award night should be a real interesting show.... (I record it and fast forward through all the bravo sierra.) I think this movie and Les Mis will go head to head for oscars.... BTW, the new Lone Ranger due out next year is going on my
"buy the dvd when the price drops" list. The preview looked interesting. I would also encourage anyone not familiar with American History to spend a few minutes on Wikipedia at the Lincoln site and the Civil war site before seeing Lincoln.
(Forgot to mention that there were no young people in the theatre but it was shown at 3:30 pm on a weekday)
 
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