Preparing for Disasters; How To | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Preparing for Disasters; How To

Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Yes, I was the phone pal for two weeks of the son of a 94-year-old neighbor. She was on a high floor, and the second day we went around to see who needed what. (The first team in our building was an ad-hoc group of kids plus me.) She was on the phone with her son when we got there, and she put me on the phone with her son. At that point it was mild still, so the only real problem was the darkness and lack of elevators. He was far enough away that I didn't think it was safe for him to try to get here, and she was safe and not isolated. As the weather deteriorated and the roads opened, he came in and got her down the stairs somehow and took her home. From then on, he's called me every few days to see if it was safe for her to return, because she was by then climbing the walls and wanted to sleep in her own little bed. Meanwhile, I was on another "escort team" getting an even older woman (98) down from a lower floor (fortunately). The team consisted of niece holding onto the woman, nephew backing down the stairs in front of her to steady her, and me standing at the foot of the stairs shining the extra flashlight to give the woman more illumination and letting the nephew see his own feet. Thank goodness these ladies were mobile. EMT people had to get another woman down the stairs in a chair.

The biggest problems aren't in regular high-rises but in some public housing complexes, where the dangers are greater and the attention paid to tenants is less. I haven't heard of any casualties, but I haven't had access to as complete coverage as I normally do.
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Funny how one doesnt think (before this storm, anyway,) about long term disasters and how they effect folks who live in tall buildings.....I too saw a blurb on the news about
how a bunch of seniors were "discovered" in a tall building days after the storm. Not being there, all one hears is whats on the news but it seems like Fema, the mayors and the governors need
to re-write the book on how to handle disasters of this type.... I hope PBS NOVA does a special on this storm cause from the viewpoint of an observer from afar, watching only TV, and not there,
it looks like many balls were dropped.
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Part of the issue with Sandy is that many people dismissed the idea that the storm would do this much damage. In my entire lifetime, I've lived in the NY/NJ area and only recall 3 hurricanes - Floyld, Irene and Sandy. Floyld was more about flooding. Plenty of nor-easters and blizzards, but they never caused as much destruction as the hurricanes IMHO. Since Irene and FLoyld didn't have as big an impact, a lot of people said TPTB are crying wolf again and didn't take steps to prepare. Utility companies were prepped for another Irene, but Sandy was worse. So, it's partly a large matter of now saying 'yes, it can happen here.....' Sandy was only cat 1 - if a stronger storm every hits, the barrier islands would likely be gone; yet, I'm sure people will rebuild in the devastated areas.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
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In Sandy, it wasn't the wind, it was the flooding--and the flooding was determined by the size of the storm, and the fact that even before it hit, we were having typical full moon autumn tides. The tide was high even before the storm hit, and it just stayed there and got higher. And the bigger the storm, the stronger the waves. Misquamicut over in Rhode Island (eastward of me :eek: ) was taken apart by those waves. The wind was basically not unusual for a fall storm there.

Whole houses are just missing; others are nearly buried in sand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92dmcKKdqDM&feature=related

More on removing 6 feet deep of sand in the public street
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BugHVYjFgDY&feature=related
 
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heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Of course, the hardest hit areas were the shorelines, but a lot of people in NJ were without power because of the winds that took down a lot of trees and utility poles, in addition to the flooded substations. Most people I knew were more concerned about flooding since Irene caused a lot of homes to get water in their basements and having the power go out = no sump pump unless you have battery backup or a siphon backup system (only works if you have a municipal power supply.)
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Chris, I don't think people dropped the ball. No one could have prepared sufficiently for a storm of this magnitude. It hit Maryland and Massachusetts at just about the same time. Even with a crystal ball, the communities would not have had enough resources, either human or in terms of revenue, to lessen the damage from such a storm. What could they have done: moved the New York subways? What they did successfully move was a whole bunch of people. So although the storm washed away some homes and damaged many more, comparatively few people were injured or killed. A hundred people died, more or less: that's awful, but it's surprisingly few people considering that about 50 million people were in the path of this storm.

As for the aftermath, I haven't had enough detailed information to know whether the electric companies have dropped the ball. It's possible that the logistics of making repairs across such a wide area are just too daunting. I read that LIPA, the electric company on Long Island, has about ten times the usual number of power workers, many from other parts of the country. They're not sitting around eating donuts, I'm sure. In areas outside the centers of the cities, power lines are above ground, and fixing a central power station isn't much use. Each downed line has to be found and repaired. And then the second storm took down a lot of the lines for a second time. In New York City, the electric company had to concentrate on restoring power to the area with the densest population and the largest number of businesses, lower Manhattan. This meant that people living elsewhere were shortchanged at first.

Two other huge disadvantages to this storm were a function of the time of year. The temperature dropped, and Daylight Savings time ended. Nights are long, and I can tell you from direct recent experience that it's a lot harder to stay sane and be self-sufficient when the dark lasts for extra hours each day. And the cold was overwhelming--below freezing for several nights.

I know they say that climate change will make for more frequent storms, but I can't believe that one like this will occur again soon. (Heaven forbid!) Its size and slowness, coupled with the unusually high tide, made it tremendously dangerous and destructive.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
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There was one drop of a ball.

Apparently power substations were built in low lying areas . When they flooded, even areas whose power lines stayed up who were fed by those substations couldn't have power restored without first fixing the substations.

Thought needs to be given to having all major power company infrastructure well above high tide lines.

And municipalities should add to their zoning code that all gas stations must have generators; maybe all gas stations with more than 2 pumps, but something so we never get the major gas hunting problems that were caused by gas stations having plenty of gas, but no way to pump it into cars or accept money for it.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/11/more-than-150000-still-without-power-in-northeast-after-sandy/

As of 5 hours ago, over 120,000 homes were still without power, mostly in Long Island.

And a reminder that storing gasoline & using generators is not without risk, both due to carbon monoxide and fire.

But he said workers are repairing unprecedented storm damage as fast as they can. About 6,400 linemen and 3,700 tree trimmers are at work, compared with 200 linemen on a normal day.

The power outages have also kept emergency crews have their hands full responding to fires started by generators and stockpiled gasoline.

A home in Hempstead was destroyed early Saturday in a blaze that fire officials suspected was related to a generator that had been placed against the building's rear wall.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/1...power-in-northeast-after-sandy/#ixzz2C0TcHrJR
 
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Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Yes, those are major problems. I've heard at least one report of a death by carbon monoxide poisoning when a generator was kept in a garage.
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
We've been discussing generators at work and with family members. My brother doesn't feel it's necessary for them - they are not on a well and they have a gas stove. He says that if power were out for an extended period of time, you'd have to worry about filling up the generator and/or people stealing them. They can also be damaged in the storm. He'd rather just deal without power - the only real concern for him is heat if it were winter time.

I tend to agree with him on this topic. Unless I have a generator hardwired, I'd be concerned about hooking it up. Considering the expense vs the # of outages, it's not really cost effective enough for me. I can make some small changes - i.e. install a gas stove (it's time - we have an electric stove and 1 burner doesn't work. We already have gas heat and gas water heater - so, it's just a matter of getting the line installed wtihin the house.) , perhaps converting the fireplace to gas.

If those factors are taken care of, we're just missing lights and food storage.

The gas lines in NJ were particularly crazy because so many people were looking for gas for their generators and/or had nightmare commutes because of all the closed roads. I also suspect that some people did not fill up their gas tanks before. I had both cars filled up - just because it was time. During the 2 weeks since Sandy, I only used 3/4 of a tank of gas of a Honda Civic - that was for 2 round trips between my home and my brother's, an 1hr each way drive for my friend's baby shower and a couple of local drives for food. I was 'fortunate' that I didn't have to travel for work - otherwise I would've probably used up both tanks in 2 weeks.

BTW, the situation in NJ is essentially gone. I bought gas last SUnday without waiting and the rationing is ending tomorrow AM at 6.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Good to hear that things have improved out by you, Heyang. The more of us return to normal, the more resources are available for those still in deep trouble. Because I was out of it for so long, I'm not really sure what percentage of Staten Island is really badly damaged--is it the whole island, or were some parts on high enough ground so the houses are intact? As for the southern part of New Jersey, I know that at least some communities were completely hammered, and people were only allowed to return briefly. And winter is coming!
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Made a typo, the 'gas' situation is essentially resolved.

As for the substations, it's a case of 'never happens here'. Heck, New Orleans itself is below sea level and floods with just a heavy rain storm. After Irene, they built walls around them that were higher than the surge from Irene. Sandy had a much higher surge than Irene.....

I think it's the south side of Staten Island that got wrecked. The central or northern parts were relatively unscathed.

If you look at a map of NJ where the coast divots west, I believe the shoreline south of that divot were most impacted. Long Beach Island is a barrier island which is probably a few blocks in width. At the narrower parts of LBI, the bay and ocean surged and met in the middle of the island. Not everyone in LBI lost their 'home' (some are not primary residences), but it was definitely devastated, nonetheless.

Our company just finished our annual United Way campaign (we can designated charities other than UW) - it's the only time of year that the company matches 50%. Because Sandy affected our community, they decided to match 100% for all donations for Sandy relief given between Nov 1st to Nov 21st. It's tough deciding where to give. I ended up with Red Cross and Habitat for Humanity. I gave more towards HFH because a lot of people are giving for the immediate issues, but people will need help rebuilding. There's also the NYC mayor's fund and a NJ governor's fund, but I don't trust that they will be administered properly - I could be wrong, of course....

The news also said that people are having a hard time finding rental properties to live in until they can rebuild. Some rentals have raised their prices 2 or 3 x pre-storm. Ugh!
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Price gouging is a sin, and I hope it's also a crime.

I think it's a wise idea to allocate funds toward the longterm needs, and Habitat for Humanity is a great idea. They will definitely be involved. I'm also hoping that someone smart uses the rebuilding to generate jobs for local construction workers and other currently jobless people. It would benefit the community many times over.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
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Here in CT we have been invaded by people from Florida claiming to be contractors but not licensed in CT, and its been a problem for local contractors. It's not clear what quality of work people are getting.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I was hoping that it would be local workers who would be hired. The licensing process would have to be honored, or it would be chaos.
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
PBS Nova is doing a special on Sandy this Sunday, I think...check local listings. While it is impossible to prepare everyone for everything, (and here again all I know is what I see on the news) the erie sound of all those gas mains having broke and spewing natural gas everywhere to where the TV correspondants could walk the streets of seaside towns and see and hear it coming from everywhere while the gas company said their was no danger was sad. I think the power companies did a great job, all things considered. I personally would have like to see military reserve and national guard units used more extensively, sooner. Time and again, on the news, people were reluctant to evacuate due to fear of wholesale looting during power outages. Some people are gong to stay, right or wrong, and a large military presence with food, water, and blankets would have been a good thing. Our military needs more training as to the matter of disaster response and this would have been a great exersise to learn from, needed or not. As bad as Sandy was, it still could have been a whole lot worse.
Chris who still hasnt heard how many houses were lost
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Here in CT we have been invaded by people from Florida claiming to be contractors but not licensed in CT, and its been a problem for local contractors. It's not clear what quality of work people are getting.
Fly by night contractors arent the only danger. Dont buy a used car without a carfax. 250,000 cars were "destroyed." People are paying top dollar for used ones and are being ripped off. But what the insurance companies do with the old cars is they sell them for a song and people "rebuild" them and pass them off as good used cars. You dont want a car that was submerged in salt water, and left to sit....on soooooo many levels......
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
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Carfax-yes, and they will move those formerly flooded cars all over the country.
Senator Schumer was on TV yesterday, after his visit to Staten Island with President Obama yesterday. He said in NY alone, 100,000 houses were lost. Apparently, there was a part of Staten Island that is actually below sea level, and once the water got over the road, everything on the other side was doomed. People were not even aware there was a danger; houses had often been in people's families for generations.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Heartbreaking. A hundred thousand houses. There are cities smaller than that.

If you read about the 1900 Galveston hurricane, similar stories emerge. After that hurricane, they built a sea wall, and that might now seem financially feasible in some parts of the NY-NJ area. There's a saying about the Netherlands, a good part of which is below sea level: God made the world, but the Dutch made Holland. If we can't convince people as a whole that we need to take steps to slow down climate change, because it really exists, then maybe people locally have to take fate into their own hands.

To say that people shouldn't be living this close to the sea is unrealistic. People have lived there uneventfully for centuries. In the old days, cities were built on water routes and where there was a good natural harbor, for transport. Moreover, there's no place for that many people to move. What--relocate to the central part of the country, where the tornadoes are? (Maybe we'll be able to hitch a ride to Oz.) Or maybe move to the Southwest, where water is already scarce? Or possibly overbuild in the Rocky Mountains, where wildfires take many homes every year? (The imp in me suggests that we all relocate to red states and make them Democratic....sorry, couldn't resist.)
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
What you're saying is true about people living near sea routes. However, that was before land fills extended islands. If you look at old maps and such, part of lower Manhatten didn't exist - it was created by Land fill. Same is true for parts of the Staten Island and the NJ beaches. Water corrodes - you can't beat Mother Nature forever. Those barrier island will get beaten and erode over time and eventually disappear.

Those homes have been there for years, but they were built pre-climate /cycle change. If they do rebuild there, they have to build smarter - not just build the same thing and think 'it won't happen again'.
 
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