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Thread: 2012 Cup of Russia Short Dance

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyria View Post
    Any SP links yet? I'm anxious to see the Shibs' SP. (
    Here it is: S&S - Short Dance

  2. #77
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    SHORT DANCE - VIDEOS & RESULT

    1. Tessa VIRTUE & Scott MOIR (CAN) - 70.65 Short Dance
    2. Elena ILINYKH & Nikita KATSALAPOV (RUS) - 65.70 Short Dance
    3. Victoria SINITSINA & Ruslan ZHIGANSHIN (RUS) - 60.85 Short Dance
    4. Maia SHIBUTANI & Alex SHIBUTANI (USA) - 58.26 Short Dance
    5. Ksenia MONKO & Kirill KHALIAVIN (RUS) - 55.81 Short Dance
    6. Nelli ZHIGANSHINA & Alexander GAZSI (GER) - 55.53 Short Dance
    7. Nicole ORFORD & Thomas WILLIAMS (CAN) - 51.44 Short Dance
    8. Penny COOMES & Nicholas BUCKLAND (GBR) - 51.39 Short Dance
    Last edited by Mao88; 11-09-2012 at 04:15 PM.

  3. #78
    Huge Scott Moir Fan Macassar88's Avatar
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    http://youtu.be/RPsPhyHMP20
    Second group of SD's

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Yep, about 2 points lower than D/W at SA...
    Actually .74 points lower - normal for V/M early in the season as they perfect programs that are way more difficult than anyone else's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Tessa looks a bit heavy, she gained weight right ?
    She actually looks thinner this season, unless you're watching video which has its screen compressed, thus stretching everything sideways. And besides, what on earth has weight got to do with anything? Let's look at the guys & see if we can detect extra poundage on them ...

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Diva View Post
    She actually looks thinner this season, unless you're watching video which has its screen compressed, thus stretching everything sideways. And besides, what on earth has weight got to do with anything? Let's look at the guys & see if we can detect extra poundage on them ...
    maybe its just her dress, dunno
    I was just asking, well adding weight might cause problems maybe to their lifts ?

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Diva View Post
    Actually .74 points lower - normal for V/M early in the season as they perfect programs that are way more difficult than anyone else's.
    I was responding to a question regarding V/M's TES.

    D/W's was 35.25 vs 33.15 for V/M.

    As far as BV, D/W had 28.50 vs 27.50 for V/M.

    In execution D/W had 6.75 while V/M had 5.65.

    V/M slightly higher in PCS: 37.50 vs 37.14 for D/W.

    The actual gap between TES + PCS is 1.14, but D/W got -1 deduction for an extended lift, so yes just a gap of .74 points overall.

    As usual it's going to be QUITE tight between these two.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mao88 View Post
    Here it is: S&S - Short Dance
    You know after watching it again I can see what they were striving for- a more sophisticated and dramatic look and feel so that they could be viewed as more mature in their presentation then a Mary Poppins SD would have given them. I think they probably wanted to give themselves their best chance this season. I could also see themselves wanting a program that stands out from the pack of cutsey polkas. This program could grow once they get more mileage under it and refine the technical components so they get their levels back.

    But I'm concerned that choreographically and musically this program is a bit opaque and not readily accessible-which is what you want in a SD. What I love about them is that even though they're young they have such clean, bold lines that really gives them a certain dignity in their presentation. Most of their successful programs retain that dignity - Nat King Cole FD, even last year's second SD was saucy, dynamic and bold (esp in the samba part) but dignified. This program comes off a bit corny- maybe if Alex could take his headband off- but I think it's more than that. The choreography is also a bit flat and not special- which you'd really need special unique choreography to pull this music off.

    All in all, even though they've changed it once already this season I wonder if they shouldn't go back to their Mary Poppins number. It would be more clear cut and have that expansive joyful quality that they could really latch on to and perform the heck out of. I remember watching the Italian team at Skate America perform to their Mary Poppins SD and just wishing I could see a more technically proficient team really skate that program lights out. The Shibs could do that.

    As for others commenting on how their technical ability has dropped- I don't think that's accurate. I think they're capable of a great deal of difficult technical skating but that their sharpness and conditioning to make sure that all precise edges and minute point getting details are being hit isn't there yet this season. So what we're seeing is just a drop in levels and not in overall technique

    Good luck to them for the rest of the season- they're one of my favorite teams.
    Last edited by missysays; 11-09-2012 at 04:29 PM.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by missysays View Post
    You know after watching it again I can see what they were striving for- a more sophisticated and dramatic look and feel so that they could be viewed as more mature in their presentation then a Mary Poppins SD would have given them. I think they probably wanted to give themselves their best chance this season. I could also see themselves wanting a program that stands out from the pack of cutsey polkas. This program could grow once they get more mileage under it and refine the technical components so they get their levels back.

    But I'm concerned that choreographically and musically this program is a bit opaque and not readily accessible-which is what you want in a SD. What I love about them is that even though they're young they have such clean, bold lines that really gives them a certain dignity in their presentation. Most of their successful programs retain that dignity - Nat King Cole FD, even last year's second SD was saucy, dynamic and bold (esp in the samba part) but dignified. This program comes off a bit corny- maybe if Alex could take his headband off- but I think it's more than that. The choreography is also a bit flat and not special- which you'd really need special unique choreography to pull this music off.

    All in all, even though they've changed it once already this season I wonder if they shouldn't go back to their Mary Poppins number. It would be more clear cut and have that expansive joyful quality that they could really latch on to and perform the heck out of. I remember watching the Italian team at Skate America perform to their Mary Poppins SD and just wishing I could see a more technically proficient team really skate that program lights out. The Shibs could do that.

    As for others commenting on how their technical ability has dropped- I don't think that's accurate. I think they're capable of a great deal of difficult technical skating but that their sharpness and conditioning to make sure that all precise edges and minute point getting details are being hit isn't there yet this season. So what we're seeing is just a drop in levels and not in overall technique

    Good luck to them for the rest of the season- they're one of my favorite teams.
    Thanks missysays!

    On viewing it on YouTube (as opposed to my crappy work connection in real-time), there's actually some positive key points, namely the step sequence. I think they will have a lot of refining to do, and perhaps they would benefit in changing the music in the polka sequence....All in all, I'm don't see the point of trashing this program wholesale. I think they would benefit more from reworking the choreography, which they've done before.

    And Missy, I totally get your point RE: clean lines. My husband absolutely loves this team for that reason. But on the other hand, you can't blame them for trying to do something completely different -- the judges clearly sent the message that "young and fresh" won't do last season -- consider how poorly the Shibs score relative to I/K in PCS, who are exactly the same age (18/21).

    It's probably worth noting that the Shibs, historically, have never been a strong SD team early in the season. That was in particular obvious last season with the Latin pattern, but even with the Golden Waltz in 2010-2011, it was really only at the end of the season -- Nationals, 4CC and Worlds -- where they really got the solid scores. In fact their PB in the Short Dance is all the way back in 2011 Worlds. They had issues at 4CC/Worlds last season, with Alex having injury/elevation problems, so it's hard to say how their reworked Latin program would have compare. Of course they did it quite well at Nationals.

    If you look at their SD scores in 2010-2011: 46.90 (Nelbelhorn; they had errors here); 53.68 (NHK); 56.46 (Skate America); 62.04 (4CC) 66.88 (Worlds)
    2011-2012: 58.45 (Finlandia); 57.79 (Cup of China); 59.02 (NHK); 65.53 (GPF); 63.38 (4CC); 62.35 (Worlds)

    So in actuality, their score is pretty typical for their first competition and especially considering the last minute switch (the Italian commentators clearly were confused because they thought they were skating to Mary Poppins), the score is not surprising upon further thought.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 11-09-2012 at 06:18 PM.

  10. #85
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    Can I just add a HUGE thank you to Mao88 for seemingly always posting the standings AND the youtube links for all of these competitions. It is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED (especially for lazy sods like me!).

  11. #86
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    I'll second that !

  12. #87
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    The Shibutanis did seem to go for the Duchenays look. Even their costumes have similarites: her in a red dress, him i dark pants, stripped white shirt w/ rolled-up sleeves and a tie (Alex opted to wear it on his head though?!)

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    V/M: Beautiful but still room for improvement. I expect this dance to peak at the GPF. Those blasted levels, though. Unusual to think that such gifted compulsory dancers struggle as much as they do with the key points, but it demonstrates just how much the SD differs. They've got a lovely, silent-movie purity to their expressions that Renoir would've been jealous of.

    I/K: Ummm..... I didn't hate it, but it was still not great. It's about as good as a Morosov dance program is gonna get. It feels way too close to Leonova's SP for my own personal taste, and it's very face-and-arms, but whatever. Well skated. Love that one judge gave them 6.25 for the linking footwork/movement. Wish that other judges followed suit. That stated, the race in Russia will be amazing.

    S/Z: Congratulations. You've just hit what is known as the Kustorova wall. It's the wall you smack into when you realize all those shortcuts she taught you that made you unbeatable juniors become liabilities. Over GOEd, overscored... a disappointment.

    Shibs: It needs a bit more... choreography, personality whatever. They're actually technically stronger than the Duchesnays, imo - better bladework (especially comparing the ladies), but I think it could be something pretty phenomenal.

    Monko/Khaliavin: Eh. The polka looked really laboured.

    Orford/Williams: Eh.

    Coomes/Buckland: A bit of a mess, really, but the camerawork was atrocious. A lovely dance to listen to.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    V/M: Beautiful but still room for improvement. I expect this dance to peak at the GPF. Those blasted levels, though. Unusual to think that such gifted compulsory dancers struggle as much as they do with the key points, but it demonstrates just how much the SD differs. They've got a lovely, silent-movie purity to their expressions that Renoir would've been jealous of.

    I/K: Ummm..... I didn't hate it, but it was still not great. It's about as good as a Morosov dance program is gonna get. It feels way too close to Leonova's SP for my own personal taste, and it's very face-and-arms, but whatever. Well skated. Love that one judge gave them 6.25 for the linking footwork/movement. Wish that other judges followed suit. That stated, the race in Russia will be amazing.

    S/Z: Congratulations. You've just hit what is known as the Kustorova wall. It's the wall you smack into when you realize all those shortcuts she taught you that made you unbeatable juniors become liabilities. Over GOEd, overscored... a disappointment.

    Shibs: It needs a bit more... choreography, personality whatever. They're actually technically stronger than the Duchesnays, imo - better bladework (especially comparing the ladies), but I think it could be something pretty phenomenal.

    Monko/Khaliavin: Eh. The polka looked really laboured.

    Orford/Williams: Eh.

    Coomes/Buckland: A bit of a mess, really, but the camerawork was atrocious. A lovely dance to listen to.
    Hm..interesting thoughts IP, especially the Kustorova wall. Are you saying they'll probably score much lower as the season goes on?

    I actually do like the I/K program, probably the best Mozorov got for his team. But it looks like he put all his energy in this SD because the FD looks like a total mess. I guess I'm just happy they're not going for the funeral look this year, at least for the SD anyway...

    And RE: the Shibs: Can you elaborate why you think this could work and be a great program? It hasn't exactly received rave reviews here and I'm not 100 percent sold, and you know I'm a big fan.

  15. #90
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    Kustarova wall: Not so much score much lower, but struggle as the years go on (it's unfair to say this since they're likely not skating any more international events this season, but I'd be surprised if they outscored this SD until after Sochi). Their posture is bad. As in really really bad. Like nearly unwatchable. And this program wasn't terribly choreographed or anything (until it got fast paced). And it's going to be so hard to fix. It'll limit their scoring potential. Technically weaker teams - the Kerrs, for example - just run up against it. Compare how she develops her skaters to how Paul McIntosh developed Virtue/Moir and there's a world of difference.

    Shibutanis: It's a gorgeously paced program - it's calibrated very strongly and peaks well. Well skated with strong technical elements and it'll leave a good impression. It's different enough for them to be a notable challenge, but not completely out of their wheelhouse either (both do give great face, imo). It's interesting to note that Zoueva really does seem interested in more modern movements - both the Shibs and V/M are trying more unusual body positions throughout their dances (watch Maia's arm movement). It'll need a lot of work - the devil's in the details with this one; I/K aren't three points ahead of them PCS (that's a joke and clear home cooking). But I look forward to this one.

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