2012 Cup of Russia Short Dance

[blackswanphoto]

Actually, the Shibtuanis have come back from a subpar SD before. NHK, they were third behind I/K and W/P in the SD, and then they ended up winning the FD to win the whole competition. They did that in their debut season as well. As I said, they are definitely stronger FD skaters.

We shall see. Im not sure if they are capable now though. They are not as good as before and have regressed technically. Before they also had a SD that was not as atrocious as the one they have this year.

[Mrs. P]

We shall see. Im not sure if they are capable now though. They are not as good as before and have regressed technically. Before they also had a SD that was not as atrocious as the one they have this year.

I'm not sure if they've regressed technically. They simply did not get the levels. That's more a matter of missing the key points or missing a rotation in a twzzle or a bracket in step sequence, etc. V/M and D/W also have been missing levels as well...so Team Canton will have to work on that.

Actually when you look at the +GOE scores, they did OK. They got mostly +1 with a dozen or so +2 sprinkled in, especially in the step sequence, which I like a lot. So the judges are saying as far as execution they were solid (though they can easily score more +GOE; they can get +3 on the twizzles)

ETA: Missysays I think summed it up well earlier RE: technical ability

As for others commenting on how their technical ability has dropped- I don't think that's accurate. I think they're capable of a great deal of difficult technical skating but that their sharpness and conditioning to make sure that all precise edges and minute point getting details are being hit isn't there yet this season. So what we're seeing is just a drop in levels and not in overall technique

[bigsisjiejie]

ETA: Also consider that Isabelle and Paul were 27 and 29 when they did that program! Maia and Alex are only 18 and 21. So to expect them to be at the same level artistically is a bit much.

In the words of the immortal Clint Eastwood: "A man's gotta know his limitations." It's one thing to try to stretch oneself, but to use music and costuming that is clearly derivative of other skaters is to invite unfavorable comparisons when you can't remotely live up to it. I say again, early season or not, first time out or not, 3-4 weeks or not, this dog of a program is never going to hunt.

[KKonas]

The Shibs have not dropped technically, but just doing something "different" does not automatically make it good. Doing a "polka" to this music is really ridiculous. Can't image what Marina was thinking.

[Mrs. P]

In the words of the immortal Clint Eastwood: "A man's gotta know his limitations." It's one thing to try to stretch oneself, but to use music and costuming that is clearly derivative of other skaters is to invite unfavorable comparisons when you can't remotely live up to it. I say again, early season or not, first time out or not, 3-4 weeks or not, this dog of a program is never going to hunt.

Do you really want to quote someone who been talking to empty chairs? I kid.

Seriously though, I'm a bit torn. My first inclination is also to trash it and start with something new; so if they end up doing that I won't be terribly disappointed about it. But after hearing Imaginary Pogue's comments, watching it several times (to see what IP was talking about) and watching it back to back with the Duchesnay program, I don't think it's a complete loss either. They have a beautiful opening step sequence that was well timed to the music.

YMMY (clearly, as we've seen in this discussion) -- but I can go either way as far as this SD. But the thing we learn with the Shibs is they work quite hard and are great about refining programs, even in a short time. (See last year's SD when they did two GP events back to back). So perhaps that is a case that they can do a new SD as well and quickly.

[dorispulaski]

The worst issue for the Shibs is not the fact the Duchesnays skated to Dolencias & Sikuriade first, it is that I&K skated to this music as a folk dance OD when they won Jr. Worlds in 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jheh5ExzYnM

The sound on the above vid is dreadful. A better version is their JGPF version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U4Dd...eature=related

A disastrous competition for the Shibs, who finished 4th overall and fourth in the OD.

BTW, the Duchesnay's used the version by Inti-Illimani, not Incantations
(and I Like the Inti Illimani versions better)
Dolencias
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9JhO...eature=related
Sicuriades
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Uln...eature=related

Not to mention that there are lots of other songs by these groups, if you want to dance to Andean music You don't have to use the same 2 songs.

The Duchesnays also used Cachapaya, is by Incantations is this version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzltkPlKBWA

[all that]

The trouble I have with the Shibs program is that they aren't connecting with the music at all. They have some interesting movements, but it's like they're doing the movements to the music, rather than dancing with the music. They aren't capturing the spirit of the pieces. Maybe because they started this program so late?

[blancanieves]

The trouble I have with the Shibs program is that they aren't connecting with the music at all. They have some interesting movements, but it's like they're doing the movements to the music, rather than dancing with the music. They aren't capturing the spirit of the pieces. Maybe because they started this program so late?

I agree with this, but my feelings aren't limited to this season. I think their skating is missing this overall. Of course, this is absolute personal perception. Having said that, plenty of dancers considered "technicians" go on to attain success so who's to say that the Shibs won't do the same in skating. But on a personal level, I need that additional level of mastery, and it's what separates the good from the great.

[dorispulaski]

I saw the Shibs live at 2010 US Nationals. Absolutely, they connect to the music. They have an absolutely superior sense of timing when they are completely comfortable with their programs-not surprising as they are the children of musicians. (Mom is a concert pianist, dad plays the flute)

http://espn.go.com/espnw/more-sports...amily-business

[Tonichelle]

I saw the Shibs live at 2010 US Nationals. Absolutely, they connect to the music. They have an absolutely superior sense of timing when they are completely comfortable with their programs-not surprising as they are the children of musicians. (Mom is a concert pianist, dad plays the flute)

http://espn.go.com/espnw/more-sports...amily-business

I agree, this was noticable back in 2008, too!