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Thread: 2012 Cup of Russia Men's SP

  1. #196
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    Okay, guys. Let's go back to the competition itself, shall we?

    I have watched all Mens SP thru bigger TV screen and they turned out much better than last night.
    Programs as whole, I really liked Gachinski's, Chan's and Kozuka's. Yes, they donot emote enough yet nor reach to the audience just yet. However, they at least try to do so and try to show their new style from what they were last season. I like that.

    My big applause of the night goes to Zhan Bush.
    He still skates like 'mini Plushy', but he indeed has improved from what he was at 2012 WTT this spring where I first saw him skate live and he exactly did skate like a junior skater. He may have loads of work to be done to become one of top skaters. But in this particular SP he skated like a senior, not a junior anymore. Kudos to him and his coach Urmy!
    Last edited by deedee1; 11-10-2012 at 07:02 AM.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by deedee1 View Post
    Okay, guys. Let's go back to the competition itself, shall we?

    I have watched all Mens SP thru bigger TV screen and they turned out much better than last night.
    Programs as whole, I really liked Gachinski's, Chan's and Kozuka's. Yes, they donot emote enough yet nor reach to the audience just yet. However, they at least try to do so and try to show their new style from what they were last season. I like that.

    My big applause of the night goes to Zhan Bush.
    He still skates like 'mini Plushy', but he indeed has improved from what he was at 2012 WTT this spring where I first saw him skate live and he exactly did skate like a junior skater. He may have loads of work to be done to become one of top skaters. But in this particular SP he skated like a senior, not a junior anymore. Kudos to him and his coach Urmy!
    I think it's cute that you call Urmanov, Urmy.

  3. #198
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jan View Post
    We are living in a different time and figure skating is not as popular as it once was. We often forget that he is only 21. If you only read this forum you would think he was a horrible skater, severely overmarked.
    First of all, I didn't mock Patrick in this forum. But honestly sometimes I don't agree with his points and results. I know skater who was superstar at 18. A sport needs superstars.

    Quote Originally Posted by SGrand View Post
    Where do you see this? I mean, figure skating in general has gone down in popularity over the last few years, you can barely find it on TV and the coverage when they do show it is rushed and so many are left out. If I asked anyone out there, in general, about figure skating, they'd be able to name Elvis, Kurt and probably Plushenko, but not many more; they'd have no clue who Lambiel and Buttle and even Yagudin are. Dai, well, skating is popular in a lot of the Asian countries so that makes sense (along with his charisma and personality), so it's easy to see why he's popular. I think Patrick probably has more fans there too, no? It's just not what it used to be in North America. As for his lack of personality, I understand what you mean, but he's obviously just not that 'outward' of a skater, although he seems to be working on that. I'd love him to have the showmanship of Plushenko and Dai, maybe it will come, maybe it won't, but I do think that if he was around 10 or 15 years ago, he'd probably have quite a few more fans. Just my opinion.
    Yes, the Fs lost popularity, but why? Do you remember Nice? The laymen crowd didn't understand the reasult. In this situation, when the Fs isn't too popular, the stars have big-big fan camp, and buy the tickets for his favorite, so it isn't good explanation.
    Last edited by plushyfan; 11-10-2012 at 12:50 PM.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilvskating View Post
    Love Patrick's skating. Such a shame he didn't know he can't do single in the combo. Why didn't he add the second jump to the lutz which usually is very good and at the second half? I can't believe he can't do the math. He really needs a real coach.
    After the landing of the quad, Patrick had a split second to decide whether or not to go for the combo. He went for it, but he didn't have enough speed for a double. It was a mistake, but not because he can't do math or doesn't know the rules. It's just very difficult during the performance to decide to change your program on the fly.

    The 2010 GPF is one example of a time where the landing on the quad was okay but iffy (slightly UR but not visibly so), and he opted not to do the quad combo, and later did a 3/3.

    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    Question: Why did Chan plan a quad combo instead of a 3Lz3T in the second half of the program to gather more bonus points?
    Perhaps because if your quad is your solo jump, then it needs to have footwork/steps preceding it, and it's easier to have steps leading into his 3Lz than the quad. It's also good for skaters to get the combo out of the way. That way if you mess up your first attempt at the combo, you have the second jumping pass later in the program to try to get it done. But if you move your combo attempt to the back half, then that's your only chance.

  5. #200
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    To continue Jaylee's point, I can think of several reasons why a skater might go for the 4T-3T combo, sacrificing the ten per cent bonus on the triple toe.

    1. The 4T-3T is the gold standard for men's figure skating. You want gold? Meet the standard!

    2. Any reasonably acceptable 4T-3T is going to get positive GOE on top of base value. Triple Lutz-triple toe, maybe not so automatic.

    3. What jaylee said. It is difficult to do steps, turns and skating movements into a quad. You risk a mandatory -3 GOE if the tech team decides you didn't do enough.

    4. If you get your quad combo out of the way at the beginning then you can really concentrate on milking the program components the rest of the way. In particular...

    5. You can do something extraordinary leading into the solo triple Lutz that you wouldn't want to chance either for a quad or for a Lutz combo.

  6. #201
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    Thank you, jaylee and mathman.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    You are not answering plusyfan's point- if Chan is as great as his score claims, then why he failed to revive the popularity of FS even in his home country. If it's because he doesn't have charisma and doesn't grab the audience, then why he gets such a huge score for Presentation and Interpretation. It doesn't add up. And no need to bring that old reason- it's all because of poor economy! In Russia the economy is not great either. But Plu gathered the full house just two days ago there (more than CoR or SC, both with Chan), with the ticket price of 10000 roubles (about 316$) in arena and 3000 (95$) in stands. How much was the ticket in SC?
    It is totally unfair and irrational to lay blames on one single skater for the sport's decline. There are several things that could be sure:

    1. There are many much more important reasons for the decline of the popularity of figure skating in North America. Evan Lysacek won the OGM. He wasn't able to revive North America. Sarah Hughes won OGM. She wasn't able to revive North America. The world champions Davis&White weren't able to revive North America. And for the same reason, the OGM and World champions Virtue&Moir weren't able to revive North America. Now you want to blame Chan for North America's figure skating popularity decline. Funny, to say the least!

    2. One thing we can be sure that figure skating competitions are not popularity contests. If you argue that the most popular skater should win the race, then you might as well argue why figure skating wouldn't let the audiences judge for the competitions.

    3. Patrick Chan is not well liked by some people might not be totally based on his skating. Some people simply don't like his look. Some people don't like his unguarded way of expressing his own feelings...

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Evan Lysacek won the OGM. He wasn't able to revive North America. Sarah Hughes won OGM.
    Neither one really tried to, though. When Scott Hamilton and Brian Boitano were unhappy with the opportunities (or lack thereof) given to them after Gold they went out and created their own market. Scott along with his management company created a new touring show. Boitano created his own production company, put on Carmen on Ice and then headlined Champions On Ice believing that the US was big enough for two shows like SOI/COI...

    Instead of whining that there isn't, they should go out and make... but I know that's not society's mentality these days. Someone else has to do the work.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    It is totally unfair and irrational to lay blames on one single skater for the sport's decline.
    What is unfair is to twist people's words and put them in their mouth. No one said that it's PChan's fault entirely that the popularity of fs in NA is below zero. The controversy of his wins is one of the factor but not the only one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    Instead of whining that there isn't, they should go out and make... but I know that's not society's mentality these days. Someone else has to do the work.
    Pretty much the same happened in Russia when the USSR collapsed and the sport lost financial sources. Folks like Averbuch, Zakaryan (Plu's agent) created their companies, shows and the rest you know. Shizhuka in Japan is another good example of working hard promoting this sport instead of whining.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I think it's cute that you call Urmanov, Urmy.
    Urmy in a white shirt with puff sleeves is forever a prince on ice for me!

    Did you see prior to the start of Bush LP, Urmanov was holding Zhan's hand and talking to his eyes to encourage his student? Priceless.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    It's not an artless program, it actually can work quite well, except for the last parts after the step sequence. The music cut there needs to be changed. Johnny's flow and positions are something that's sorely lacking from figure skating these days; it's too bad he completely bungled the jumps. He is NEVER going to do a rotated quad if he keeps approaching it like this. Needs way more speed and less reach-around on the toepick. He used to get very good elevation and rotation on his quads before going to Galina, albeit with two-foot landings. Regardless, fully-rotated quads with two-foot landings give you a lot of points under this scoring system, so that's what Johnny should aim to do. He needs to get a jump coach. Galina is TRASH.
    I wouldn't call Galina "trash," but I do agree that Johnny's technique has suffered under her. She wasn't able to help Oksana with her technique on jumps either. However, Johnny never had any problems with his jump technique before leaving Priscilla. So as for Galina, I'd have to say, "Don't try fixing what ain't broke!" But I guess it's too late now.

    ETA:

    After viewing the programs, none of the guys skated with much passion or inspiration. Too bad re Richard's problems on the combo and hand down on the 3-axel, because he otherwise did a good job and I think he's a much smoother skater with budding interpretive skills than Bush, Menshov, Gachinski and Brezina (although Brezina has very good potential artistically to go along with his jumps -- he just hasn't shown much yet -- I don't like his sp choreo, costume or music). Menshov is a good skater and landed his jumps, but he lacks stretch, artistry, and interpretive skills. Bush shows much improvement as someone else mentioned above, but he still has a long way to go. Gachinski is improved in terms of landing his jumps compared to his recent performances. Apparently, Johnny skated injured, but still he landed more of his jumps than Denis Ten, so I'm not sure why Denis wasn't in last place. I do love Denis' programs this season, but he needs to skate with more confidence and learn how to land his jumps under pressure. Maybe he should ask for more help from Lambiel, as Frank's pep talks are clearly not working for D10. It will be a shame if Denis never gets it together. He's a much better skater than his results show.

    Of all, I enjoyed Kozuka and Patrick Chan. PC did a wonderful job and looks to be back on track.
    Last edited by Art&Sport; 11-11-2012 at 06:39 PM.

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