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Thread: 2012 Cup of Russia Men's SP

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    Haters gonna hate. But I find the scroll button works wonders for restoring peace of mind.
    Great wisdom.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    No, you are wrong. I'm a fan of FS, not skater as not an expert. But I watched the Fs in my whole life. I can see Chan's glide on ice, but something is missing. Charisma? I don't know....I believe you, that Chan is great in PCS. But I have a question..he is two time world champion, why he hasn't more fans in the world?? /I don't speak about Fs forum members, i speak the layman people, but i think here are layman people too / Like had/ has Browning, Yagudin, Plushenko, Lambiel, Dai???? Why?? I think, this is a very important question...his most fans are in North-America, but the rest of the world don't go crazy for him..Why?
    I think it's worth pointing out that Chan gets invited to skate in shows in China and Korea and was even invited to skate at the gala for Japanese Nationals - so he must have some support. I'm more curious why you feel so dismissive towards North American audiences in general when this discussion crops up. Browning, Yagudin and Plushenko grew up when skating was at it's height. Browning's professional programs alone are amazing. I'm not a fan of Plushenko at all, but there's no denying his ability to hold a crowd and compete. Lambiel and Dai? Lambiel is the best skate-artists around. Dai is skating where the sport is at it's most popular. I think all five are better audience grabbers. I think that Chan's specific skill set is less audience friendly, no doubt. I also think enough people have made up their minds such that he could become a mutant shapeshifter with multiple personality disorder and they would still say he lacks character and soul.

  3. #183
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    Love Patrick's skating. Such a shame he didn't know he can't do single in the combo. Why didn't he add the second jump to the lutz which usually is very good and at the second half? I can't believe he can't do the math. He really needs a real coach.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    No, you are wrong. I'm a fan of FS, not skater as not an expert. But I watched the Fs in my whole life. I can see Chan's glide on ice, but something is missing. Charisma? I don't know....I believe you, that Chan is great in PCS. But I have a question..he is two time world champion, why he hasn't more fans in the world?? /I don't speak about Fs forum members, i speak the layman people, but i think here are layman people too / Like had/ has Browning, Yagudin, Plushenko, Lambiel, Dai???? Why?? I think, this is a very important question...his most fans are in North-America, but the rest of the world don't go crazy for him..Why?
    I get what you are saying, and I kind of agree. This is why Patrick Chan cannot be one of my favorite skaters - because, like you said, he doesn't have that charisma that makes me love him. I can't always feel the emotion from him, and feel that he absolutely loves skating and loves being out there. Now, certain people like different things in their favorite skaters, and Chan just doesn't grab me.

    Although I am not a fan, I do not want to take anything away from him. He is a brilliant jumper (most of the time ) and obviously a great all-around skater, and he deserves to have loyal fans for that who really appreciate his skating. I think he does have quite a few fans in the figure skating circle, too. Yeah, maybe the "layman people" don't love him as much, but I think that is just because he doesn't have that personality and charisma, which I think is something you either have or you just don't - you can't really learn it. He may be less popular because of it, but it doesn't really make him less of a champion, maybe just a little less entertaining (and I honestly do go for the charisma... Daisuke, Javier ).

    Now, it does bother me when people who aren't "Chan fans" say horrible things about him, and I've actually started kind of feeling bad for him. His skating may not capture me, but I actually like Patrick as a person. Yeah, I mean, I have thought that he was over-scored before, but I am not going to tear him down - it's not his fault. I think he just tries to do his best, and the judges will reward it. I don't think he deserves all the crap he gets. He's a nice guy and some people's insults (especially when they are personal) are cruel and unnecessary.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Because we've read some truly horrible attacks on him. Because there is a great deal of hypocrisy involved in the discussion. Because there is such a thing as invalid criticism. Because when we make responses that I think are reasonable, fact based ripostes, we get dismissed as bullies, or the facts get overwhelmed by the hyperbolic hate. I can discuss Chan with some people, but feel the need to do so in a private message in order to actually have a discussion.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilvskating View Post
    Love Patrick's skating. Such a shame he didn't know he can't do single in the combo. Why didn't he add the second jump to the lutz which usually is very good and at the second half? I can't believe he can't do the math. He really needs a real coach.
    I was wondering if Patrick knows that starting from this year, jumps in the second half in SP could get 10% bonus? There are probably a lot of things that he normally relies on his coach to tell him. To only rely on learning from mistakes at the competitions is just too costly for any skaters.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 11-10-2012 at 12:32 AM.

  6. #186
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    Johnny's program really look dated. It was almost embarrassing to watch. He's getting too old for that Lady Gaga stuff.
    Last edited by Puchi; 11-10-2012 at 12:05 AM.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterscotch17 View Post
    I get what you are saying, and I kind of agree. This is why Patrick Chan cannot be one of my favorite skaters - because, like you said, he doesn't have that charisma that makes me love him. I can't always feel the emotion from him, and feel that he absolutely loves skating and loves being out there. Now, certain people like different things in their favorite skaters, and Chan just doesn't grab me.

    Although I am not a fan, I do not want to take anything away from him. He is a brilliant jumper (most of the time ) and obviously a great all-around skater, and he deserves to have loyal fans for that who really appreciate his skating. I think he does have quite a few fans in the figure skating circle, too. Yeah, maybe the "layman people" don't love him as much, but I think that is just because he doesn't have that personality and charisma, which I think is something you either have or you just don't - you can't really learn it. He may be less popular because of it, but it doesn't really make him less of a champion, maybe just a little less entertaining (and I honestly do go for the charisma... Daisuke, Javier ).

    Now, it does bother me when people who aren't "Chan fans" say horrible things about him, and I've actually started kind of feeling bad for him. His skating may not capture me, but I actually like Patrick as a person. Yeah, I mean, I have thought that he was over-scored before, but I am not going to tear him down - it's not his fault. I think he just tries to do his best, and the judges will reward it. I don't think he deserves all the crap he gets. He's a nice guy and some people's insults (especially when they are personal) are cruel and unnecessary.
    Well said! We all have our favorite skaters, skaters whose style or expression appeals to us, draws us in, evokes emotion. I admire many skaters, for a variety of reasons & don't necessarily see one style as superior to another. I like Dai for his charisma & joie de vivre, Javier for his beautiful lines, jumps & sense of fun, and Patrick for his amazing ss, lines, edges. In dance/ballet emotion is expressed through body positions & movement, hands and arms, and that's where I personally see the emotion in Patrick's programs, such as to Rachmaninoff in his Short. Let's celebrate all these amazing, hardworking athletes ...

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    Question: Why did Chan plan a quad combo instead of a 3Lz3T in the second half of the program to gather more bonus points?
    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles
    You know, I used to participate on a poetry workshop board, a board that makes this one a model of civility and moderation. The very first poem I posted, I got a response that I will politely summarize as, "Not a single word in this ________________ works."
    Chan did a great big macho triple Axel!
    Chan did a great big fearless triple Lutz!
    Chan tried a big quadruptle-triple com-bo,
    And that, said Chan, takes guts!

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilvskating View Post
    Love Patrick's skating. Such a shame he didn't know he can't do single in the combo. Why didn't he add the second jump to the lutz which usually is very good and at the second half? I can't believe he can't do the math. He really needs a real coach.
    I get the sense the 1T was not planned, ie he was forced to do it based on the landing of the quad. He probably knew if he added the combo to the lutz, his whole combo would be invalidated, basically costing him nearly 8 points.

    Akiko Suzuki actually had a similar situation with her FS at SC, when she did an unplanned 1t on the end if her 3F, which basically forced her to change her last two jumping passes.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 11-10-2012 at 12:13 AM.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I get the sense the 1T was not planned, ie he was forced to do it based on the landing of the quad. He probably knew if he added the combo to the lutz, his whole combo would be invalidated, basically costing him nearly 8 points.

    Akiko Suzuki actually had a similar situation with her FS at SC, when she did an unplanned 1t on the end if her 3F, which basically forced her to change her last two jumping passes.
    You are right. I believe Patrick knew that there could not be two combos in SP. But I think Ilvskating was saying the different thing. I think he/she meant to question why Patrick didn't plan in the first place to have a single 4T, and do a 3Lz-3T later in the second half of the program which he was perfectly capable of.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by roundboypete View Post
    Chan did a great big macho triple Axel!
    Chan did a great big fearless triple Lutz!
    Chan tried a big quadruptle-triple com-bo,
    And that, said Chan, takes guts!

  12. #192
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    Personally I think Chan interpreted this SP music quite well.
    I like his skating a lot. But I have never liked his SP. Even Exilados. That's not a tango.
    And Take Five oh well. I really hate this program.
    AND finally the program I really can enjoy.
    He is not the skater has charisma. yes but for me that's no big deal.
    But I understand for other people , It's important.

    As for emotion I feel his emotion in this program. not in Exilados,and not much in take five.
    Last edited by questar; 11-10-2012 at 01:00 AM.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    You are right. I believe Patrick knew that there could not be two combos in SP. But I think Ilvskating was saying the different thing. I think he/she meant to question why Patrick didn't plan in the first place to have a single 4T, and do a 3Lz-3T later in the second half of the program which he was perfectly capable of.
    Ah ok. That is an interesting question.....

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Diva View Post
    Well said! We all have our favorite skaters, skaters whose style or expression appeals to us, draws us in, evokes emotion. I admire many skaters, for a variety of reasons & don't necessarily see one style as superior to another. I like Dai for his charisma & joie de vivre, Javier for his beautiful lines, jumps & sense of fun, and Patrick for his amazing ss, lines, edges. In dance/ballet emotion is expressed through body positions & movement, hands and arms, and that's where I personally see the emotion in Patrick's programs, such as to Rachmaninoff in his Short. Let's celebrate all these amazing, hardworking athletes ...

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Browning, Yagudin and Plushenko grew up when skating was at it's height. ... Dai is skating where the sport is at it's most popular.
    You are not answering plusyfan's point- if Chan is as great as his score claims, then why he failed to revive the popularity of FS even in his home country. If it's because he doesn't have charisma and doesn't grab the audience, then why he gets such a huge score for Presentation and Interpretation. It doesn't add up. And no need to bring that old reason- it's all because of poor economy! In Russia the economy is not great either. But Plu gathered the full house just two days ago there (more than CoR or SC, both with Chan), with the ticket price of 10000 roubles (about 316$) in arena and 3000 (95$) in stands. How much was the ticket in SC?

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