2012 Cup of Russia Pairs FS

**koatcue** · 11-11-2012, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by StellaCampo

I would like someone to clarify:
V/T's throws are high and long but if they can't land them decently, should they get credit for the height and length? Are they actually getting credit for that? Eg, height & length +GOE=2, fall -GOE=-3 overall -1 GOE?
Anyone can throw a girl high and long. There is no virtue in it per se.

Anyone? Ok, let's see how many skaters do that in competition

**StellaCampo** · 11-11-2012, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by koatcue

Anyone? Ok, let's see how many skaters do that in competition

Sorry, I meant: "anyone can throw a girl high and long if you don't have to worry about landing her properly". One of the reasons why some men don't throw their partners far may be because they are not certain of landing them.

**Buttercup** · 11-11-2012, 07:32 AM

Without naming names, we've certainly seen some of the guys throw their female partners like a sack of potatoes. And sometimes the pairs girls are so tiny that it looks like the partner is flinging them across the ice with no great effort. I have no problem with rewarding good technique and execution, but mistakes have to be punished as well. A two-footed landing on a throw does not merit +2 or 3, regardless of whatever other merits the element might have.

**demarinis5** · 11-11-2012, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by *~RussianBleux~*

I actually thought the judging of the entire event was questionable.

I would have had DM/G ahead of V/B and M/R, maybe even L/S in the free skate. I also would have had D/C over B/L.

The inflated scores of the Russian pairs were ridiculous.

Originally Posted by gold12345

The pairs judging was scandalous today! No way else to describe it. How did they call Denney's 2A underrotated, but not Bazarova's, which was blatantly more underrotated? B/L totally missed their second lift and did not suffer nearly enough in GOE because of it. All of their jumps and throws had noticable errors, yet their marks hardly reflect it. Their 3FTh received marks from -1 to +2. +2s are crazy considering it wasn't a clean element!

The GOE ranged from -2 to +3 (!!!!) for Volosozhar/Trankov's 3STh throw, which landed on 2 feet! Outrageous! Why did they get several -2s for falls?! I know that falls don't have to automatically be given -3, but come on, those were major falls! How did one judge only give -1 for their botched sbs 3S combo? The look on Tatiana's face when the score came up showed that even she knew they were very overscored. How could she not?

Just like at Skate Canada, it continues to baffle my mind that an international panel of judges will inflate scores for the home skaters when they feel it's necessary. But I think this event was even worse than anything that's happened at Skate Canada... This was a very blatant and sad attempt to hold the 2 Russian pairs up. If they had just scored every element fairly, V/T would have still won. D/C and B/L would have flipped, but what would have been so wrong with that? So strange that an international panel of judges acts like this.

The Americans should have filed a complaint... Complaints probably aren't even allowed, but they should be!

Originally Posted by FSGMT

I absolutely agree with both of you! The correct scores/placements should have been
1) Volosozhar/Trankov (with a score between 125-126)
2) Denney-Coughlin
3) Bazarova-Larionov (with a PCS around 60, not 4 points higher than D/C with many more mistakes and nothing sèecial in the program itself, excpet being Russians in Russia(!!!), and a < in at least one on the 2As, plus negative or 0 GOEs for their throws!)

I believe (correct me if I am wrong) the the the Judges for the Pairs FS are from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Uzbekistan and Estonia, just saying.......

**kappa_1** · 11-11-2012, 12:14 PM

This is awful. It is the worst judging of the season...hands down. Can Tranflation become a thing??? Thanks, mikiandorocks!

I am a big S/S fan, and although I viewed this team originally as a threat I was super excited that another team would push S/S to become more consistent, and would be happy if V/T wins Sochi if they outperform S/S. But now I am afraid that V/T will win even with a crappy skate like they had today. I thought the program would maaaaaybe get over 118. But 130+!?!?!? I want whatever meds the judges must be high on.

**blue_idealist** · 11-11-2012, 05:27 PM

I finally watched these. I'm starting to watch V and T right now, but I just finished B/L, and I can't believe they were placed 10 pts ahead of Denney/Coughlin.

**verte76** · 11-11-2012, 05:31 PM

Unfortunately NBC isn't showing the pairs.

**gold12345** · 11-11-2012, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by demarinis5

I believe (correct me if I am wrong) the the the Judges for the Pairs FS are from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Uzbekistan and Estonia, just saying.......

Yes, ugh. In 2012, this is still a problem. I wish I was wrong, but I'm guessing those judges were 5 of the 6 judges who thought V/T's very 2-fted 3STh deserved +GOE, even as high as +3! I really wish the ISU would get it together and crack down on bad judging and come up with more balanced panels. 7 of the 9 judges shouldn't be European... Or better yet, maybe the judges should actually judge fairly! The scoring of elements should be relatively objective! A mistake is a mistake!

**colleen o'neill** · 11-12-2012, 01:00 PM

I haven't read through all the comments , so probably it's all been said. I just want to add that the scoring , especially for the pairs competition , has been absolutely pathetic , and should this kind of thing continue , it will lose fans for the sport.

I now sort of dread the GPF.

**AlexRus** · 11-12-2012, 01:11 PM

http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/567839 (Russian)
Tatiana VOLOSOZHAR / Maxim TRANKOV

Citation of one phrase of this interview.
===
– We are happy with a score, – Tatiana honestly admits. – But it would be desirable also to have skating corresponding the score.
===

**FlattFan** · 11-12-2012, 01:13 PM

The problem is there's no accountability. You can give +3 for a fall, and nothing would happen. There should be an inquiry system for skaters and coaches and federation. You should file an inquiry when there's obvious judging errors like the case of B/L and V/T. If a judge continually gives the wrong GOE, then s/he is not fit to be a judge. S/he should be banned for life. The wrong GOE should be the average of the rest of the other judges or should be decided by the tech panel.

Of course, skating isn't a real sport, so all these nonsense still exist.

**mikiandorocks** · 11-12-2012, 05:35 PM

Excuse me FlattFan but I would like to hear why do you think skating isn't a real sport? Is it because of the judging? If that's the case, I totally disagree. Skating is a majestic sport. Yes, there might be problems in judging once in a while. But what could we say about soccer then? That it isn't a real sport? Let's have in mind that there are plenty of referee mistakes that have a direct implication in the final result in every competition (Champions League, Europa League, national championships, Euros and worlds). People still regard soccer has a "real" sport despite all that. With skating it shouldn't be different. There are mistakes by judges but it doesn't mean that skating shouldn't be seen as a real sport.
The scores for the top three couples in the COR were higher than the performances deserved but the right people were in the podium in the right order (at least in my eyes). I just question why Volosozhar & Trankov got + GOE for certain elements where there were obvious mistakes and I don't understand some of the scores that some judges gave them in the components.

**FlattFan** · 11-12-2012, 06:29 PM

Skating is too subjective. Most of the time, I'm baffled by the PCS some skaters received. I don't understand why inflated GOE were given to some skaters but not others. The judging is completely wacky. No one say pageantry is a sport, do they?
Subjectivity and real sport are two parallel lines.

If they have PCS in gymnastic, Shaun Johnson would never get that many Gold and Silver medals. She would be the Denney/Coughlin of figure skating. Someone like B/L would win medals even when they fall 5 times on the balance beam. Their execution would be 9.7 and their base value would be 5.2. Shaun's execution would be 4.2 and her base could be 10 and still lose.

For soccer, they regularly file complaints and inquiries, correct? And people have been complained about the power of referees for years, so it wasn't a controversial-free sport.