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Thread: 2012 Cup of Russia Men FS.

  1. #136
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    MEN'S FREE SKATE - VIDEOS & RESULT (Updated)

    1. Patrick CHAN (CAN) - 262.35 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
    2. Takahiko KOZUKA (JPN) - 229.99 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
    3. Michal BREZINA (CZE) - 224.56 Free Skate
    4. Konstantin MENSHOV (RUS) - 223.72 Free Skate
    5. Nobunari ODA (JPN) - 217.92 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
    6. Richard DORNBUSH (USA) - 210.89 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
    7. Artur GACHINSKI (RUS) - 209.84 Free Skate
    8. Zhan BUSH (RUS) - 199.37 Free Skate
    9. Denis TEN (KAZ) - 177.77 Free Skate

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niki2012 View Post
    I do think P Chan deserves 10 in SS. His skating is amazing and over the top. But I do not get how he gets much higher scores in other PCS elements like P/E, Choreo and Interpretation. He skated flawlessly except a couple of jumping mistakes, which translate into higher scores? But then, Hanyu got 79 in PCS at Skate America when he had three falls and run out of gas obviously toward the end of program. In terms of flawlessness, Oda and Kozuka were much better, but Oda got only 73 and Kozuka got 79 this time.

    You get higher scores in other elements too if you have superb SS? Is Hanyu’s skating better than Oda and Kozuka?
    I do not think so.

    I like P Chan’s new program and he deserves a win this time. I just do not get PCS is inflated for some skaters and deflated for some, and there is no clear explanation for it.
    Kozuka deserved something more, surely 80+, but I think that Patrick's flow and skating ARE actually far batter than Kozuka, Oda and Hanyu and that he deserved 10 for SS, his ability in using those skates are just PERFECT! And, talking about Takahiko, I always find his programs really emotionless, boring sometimes... Well skated and with a good flow and choreography, yes, but non emotionally captivating... Is it just me?

  3. #138
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    Kozuka is a wonderful skater but he can be too introspective in his performances for my taste. His subtle style comes off as dull. Still his skating skills are incredible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterscotch17 View Post
    I totally agree with you, and this is exactly how I felt last season about Chan, because, well, I'm an unforgiving Daisuke fan You first paragraph took the words right out of my mouth. I didn't like Chan winning everything when sometimes I didn't think the win was justified. However, I never hated Chan, and this season I find myself liking him a little bit more. Still not a fan, but I can appreciate his skating. His free skate is very good this season, and he no question deserved to win this competition.

    Daisuke's programs aren't bad, he had a lot to live up to after his magnificent programs last year. I actually like his SP a alot, but I think his free skate is just okay. I guess my problem with it, is that it seems like a program and music that anyone could skate to, whereas Blues I felt was something only Dai could pull off so magnificently. To me it seems "average", and Daisuke is far better than that. I can only wish him the best.
    Yes, I also agree with you about Daisuke's this year programs. They are ok, the SP is more like him, but the LP even when he skated it clean at JO seemed a little bit dull, too common, beneath him, comparing to what we saw the last 3 years. And also that costume, Morozov costume:( Remember his very original outfit and programs from the Olympics. But I expect him to add some salt and pepper to his LP with time passing and maybe at worlds it will look better.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    Kozuka deserved something more, surely 80+, but I think that Patrick's flow and skating ARE actually far batter than Kozuka, Oda and Hanyu and that he deserved 10 for SS, his ability in using those skates are just PERFECT! And, talking about Takahiko, I always find his programs really emotionless, boring sometimes... Well skated and with a good flow and choreography, yes, but non emotionally captivating... Is it just me?
    I agree P Chan’s skating skill is better than three of them. But, I do not understand why he gets much higher scores on TR, PE, CC, and IN too. If they are closely related to SS, and a skater with high SS automatically gets higher scores on them, it is meaningless to have such elements. I like his program better than last season and he shows more emotions, but still to me only explanation he gets high PCS overall is his superiority in SS. I do not see much difference in other elements compared with other top skaters. They are so subjective and depend on their own taste. I find P’s program more boring than Kozuka although I am awed by his SS.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by IleK View Post
    Yes, I also agree with you about Daisuke's this year programs. They are ok, the SP is more like him, but the LP even when he skated it clean at JO seemed a little bit dull, too common, beneath him, comparing to what we saw the last 3 years. And also that costume, Morozov costume:( Remember his very original outfit and programs from the Olympics. But I expect him to add some salt and pepper to his LP with time passing and maybe at worlds it will look better.
    I also do not like Takahashi’s LP costume. One-piece does not suit him. I am afraid it is bad influence from Morozov.
    I hope he changes his costume from NHK.

  7. #142
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    Congratulations to all the medalists!!
    Both Chan's and Kozuka's LP are beautiful!!
    I'm very looking foward to the GPF

  8. #143
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    All this fuss is because of me? Thanks guys! I am blushing like a virgin rock star.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Although...Patrick got only 0.13 for his safe 2A, 0.13 for his safe 2LO and 0.30 for his safe 2S. If the jump's not there, no need to play macho man by forcing a 3A<< and falling.

    Where he got his big GOEs was from his 4T+3T (2.14) and his solo 4T (2.71).
    So, you are saying it's better to have a prog with safe elemets like double jumps, not to put risky elements like trixels, than to challenge real stuff? Haven't we already been there and seen that in the time of quadless champions like Buttle and Evan? Now time for trixel-less champs has come. Great!

    Progs without risky elements is not just GOE for those safe elements. In general it's much tougher for body and nerves to skate the prog with elements of ulra difficulty. It often leads to mistakes which reflects in the quality of other elements and GOE for them, as well as PCS. Like it happened just recently at JO where Plu had a higher BV (even with a singled axel and doubled S) than Buttle due to challenging tougher elements. But he ended up with lower GOE and PCS than Jeffrey, and lower in general. Because he risked more difficult stuff, made mistakes, for that reason got lower GOE and PCS. If he had followed Buttle's route of skating safe and clean, he might have ended up above Buttle. But he is PLU! It's not a real champion material to skate safe.

    Btw, speaking about GOE, you know what Patrick said about his second quad at the press-conference? He said it wasn't perfect because he had to speed down. Not perfect, the skater thinks. The judges gave him +2.71 GOE. Go figure. Lol.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen3000 View Post
    Well PChan get tired of peoples complaining him about winning with falls and triple splats, so he goes to a new approach. Winning with doubles jumps and inflated PCS.
    Look on the bright side, 3 doubles jumps is a huge improvement from 3 falls. LOL Expect to see his PCS hit 100, by world.
    Jokes aside, you are damn right. He didn't crack any 9 in PCS neither in JO nor in SC where he skated with falls. Knowing that skating-safe policy worked before in FS history, why not to try that old route. The moment he skated clean and safe without 3A and with three doubles, his PCS jumped up immediately. The funniest ones in this story is judges who seem like always thinking that they are smarter than anyone else. But the audience in Megasport, with "faint applause and scarce ovation" as someone put it, knew, as well as other fans, that he skated clean because he skated safe. Having and therefore not-having elements of super difficulty must resulted in components. No need to give abnormal PCS for doubles jumps. When did we last have a GP winner in Men who didn't even bother to jump 3A, the element that has been in this field for the 4th decade? Wonderful.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niki2012 View Post
    I agree P Chan’s skating skill is better than three of them. But, I do not understand why he gets much higher scores on TR, PE, CC, and IN too. If they are closely related to SS, and a skater with high SS automatically gets higher scores on them, it is meaningless to have such elements. I like his program better than last season and he shows more emotions, but still to me only explanation he gets high PCS overall is his superiority in SS. I do not see much difference in other elements compared with other top skaters. They are so subjective and depend on their own taste. I find P’s program more boring than Kozuka although I am awed by his SS.
    Kozuka's skating skills and transitions are excellent. However, in terms of projection, connection with the audience, and range of facial expression to express the music, he could use some improvement. He could start by smiling a bit more, and he could take some tips from Daisuke Takahashi and Yuzuru Hanyu on how they use their whole body to interpret the music.

    Patrick Chan, whether you find him boring or not, does have a wider range of facial expression than Kozuka. That's not subjective, you can look at how Patrick's expression changes when his program opens, or right when he begins his first step sequence or his later choreographed sequence.

    I respect Kozuka, and I'd love to love him. But he has got to be more expressive in order to get higher PCS. Being a subtle, introverted skater is not enough. Jeremy Abbott is at heart rather an introverted skater, but he's found a way to push himself to express a range of music genres and I think he's succeeded. Kozuka's programs this season are fine, but I think they could have pushed him out of his safety zone more. I LOVE his Glee Ex that was done by Kurt Browning.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    So, you are saying it's better to have a prog with safe elemets like double jumps, not to put risky elements like trixels, than to challenge real stuff? Haven't we already been there and seen that in the time of quadless champions like Buttle and Evan? Now time for trixel-less champs has come. Great!
    Poor Patrick. If he tries hard stuff and falls, critics holler and scream. If he scales back and stays on his feet, critics holler and scream. His next strategy will be to attack all the hard jumps, no falls, but hold back on the intricate footwork and moves in the field. (Remember, you don't have to be perfect, just better than the other guys.)

    Actually, I think this will be Chan's strategy for the Olympic season. He started out dazzling us with his quick feet. Stage two, learn a quad. Current stage, push the tech to the background temporarily to work on artistry and performance. Next year he will skate a simpler program, but concentrate on delivering the full tech content without major error. We'll see how it all plays out.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Poor Patrick. If he tries hard stuff and falls, critics holler and scream. If he scales back and stays on his feet, critics holler and scream. His next strategy will be to attack all the hard jumps, no falls, but hold back on the intricate footwork and moves in the field. (Remember, you don't have to be perfect, just better than the other guys.)

    Actually, I think this will be Chan's strategy for the Olympic season. He started out dazzling us with his quick feet. Stage two, learn a quad. Current stage, push the tech to the background temporarily to work on artistry and performance. Next year he will skate a simpler program, but concentrate on delivering the full tech content without major error. We'll see how it all plays out.
    Seriously, he must be thinking "I'm damned if I do, and I'm damned if I don't" LOL

  13. #148
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    Surely it’s just me, but I love Taka’s programs so much this year!

    He’s so intense while skating, he feels the music, has a lot of speed, rythm and a sort of joy in his FS...
    I appreciate his 3-3 combo and 3S at the very end of the FS, his amazing spins and that he didn’t play safe..lucky person who saw him live in Moscow!

    On the other side, is the three- 2A- philosophy seriously coming back for Olys ? ?

  14. #149
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    I love Kozuka too. But I already gave up on that the judges would give him the PCS he deserves. Not like Chan and Takahashi, if his jumps were not there 90% or more,
    his PCS would suffer and drop like landslide. People want him to have more facial expression to have higher PCS, but to my knowledge, facial expression (or audience connection) should affect the presentation mark to some extent only, right? I hope he won't get discouraged, and focus on what he can do (control), and perform to his
    satisfaction.

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    Kozuka's skating is odd, rather difficult to describe. Bad posture and lines? Yet there were expressive, beautiful hand movements here and there. Not enough projection? Yet I could feel his strong passion intermittently ringing in my heart. Not enough facial expressions? Yet I could see flashes of genuine joys and sorrows exuding through his skate. No sense of music? That's definitely not true. He always hit the beats right. But he had a hard time to grab the audience's eye. Why?

    One of the reasons, I believe, is his lack of internal consistency: Flowing hands combined with stiff torso, good moments mixed with bad. If a great skate of high internal consistency is randomly divided into several parts, what we get is several parts of good quality skate. If a performance of poor internal consistency is randomly divided into parts, what we get is the amplified choppiness. It is thus especially detrimental to his presentation when Kozuka made visible errors, which somehow had an amplified overall impact. Identical mistakes if made by Chan or Dai would have had less overall impact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niki2012 View Post
    I am afraid it is bad influence from Morozov.
    I just discovered why I lost interest in Dai this season.
    Last edited by skatinginbc; 11-11-2012 at 12:50 PM.

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