Page 14 of 15 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 LastLast
Results 196 to 210 of 218

Thread: 2012 Cup of Russia Men FS.

  1. #196
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    I don't believe either is superior - I think in the best competitive performances, they compliment each other and can be of equal importance. But our starting point here was your contention that IJS artistry was more sophisticated/interesting/whatever adjective you want than 6.0 artistry, so I'm not sure how the question of technical mastery is relevant, unless it enables better artistic expression. And I don't think it necessarily does; that's up to the skaters and their choreographers.

    Our excellent thread-jacking abilities strike again
    Fair enough. I'd argue that figure skating artistry is only worthwhile if it comes through figure skating (aka, technical mastery).

  2. #197
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    111
    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    I just finished watching the men's freeskate (taped it while I was at work) and, sorry to say, I thought most of the men were pretty boring with the exception of Patrick Chan. I felt like I was watching pretty much the same program - only the costumes (!!!!) and the faces were changed. It's not all about the jumps! Some of these guys needs to skate to their music and not just go thru the motions of throwing an arm up or doing a wiggle in their footwork. I was underwhelmed.
    I agree. I felt quite bored. PC's program, on the other hand, was quite glorious.

  3. #198
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    2,188
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    I think that belittling the judges shows plainly about one's disrespect and arrogance.
    So, belittling the audience is the right reserved for Chan ubers. While others can't even say any single word of critics of your guy's score without "shows plainly disrespect and arrogance to judges". The same old song that we were hearing from you guys for the whole last season- "the audience is dumb, we Chan fans and the judges are the ones with expertise!" Unfortunately for you the vast majority of fs community are quite knowledgeable. That's why no one ever took your guys' argument about stupid audience seriously . Probably that's why none of chan ubers took my advice and didn't let it go- the keep repeating how stupid everyone who disagree with their guy's score is. Pathetic.

  4. #199
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,768
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    deedee, what was your favourite Lambiel program? Your favourite Buttle program? The reason I'm asking is because many of their programs are considered COP peaks - Naqoyqaatsi, Ararat, Rachmaninov, Adios Noninos, Poeta, Blood Diamond, Vivaldi......
    My most favorite SP of Lambiel is Blood Diamond! No doubt.

    LP is...Vivaldi for me, still...I know many believe Poeta is his masterpiece/best program in his whole career and I agree with them...'artistically'. Especially at 2007 Tokyo Worlds where, in spite of jump mistakes, I had goosebumps while watching it the whole time 4 mminutes d half! However, if I see it as a competitive program, I feel a bit incomplete becasuse of lack to ice coverage/over all speed/too many stops with dance at one place. (Sorry to say this and please don't get me wrong, becasuse I also knew his injuries over the years is part of its reason...)
    With Vivaldi program in 2005-06 season, Stephane was literally 'flying' with joy over the ice, expressing every note of the music with his whole body while executing hardest jumps (2nd quad in the second half!), doing most difficult steps and spins at the same time!!! That was figure skating, the sport I fell in love, for me. Stephane exactly demonstrated 'figure skating' with this program, not mere hard jumps, not numbers of revolutions/change edges/positions required in spins, not all about skating skill, nor requirements to get level 4 step sq. A mixture of everything that was performed on the ice throughout 4 minutes+half!

    As for Buttle, SP is probably Rachmaninov as a competitive program. Adios Noninos at 2007 Worlds comes to close second, though.
    There are so many free programs of his that I really like, so I just can't pick up one...maybe Ararat at 2008 LA Worlds where he skated so perfectly (though I still prefer his white shirt with blue emboideries in the previous season).

    I agree with you, IP, many of their programs are pure 'gems' in this CoP era. Around 2005-7 seasons, I did believe that we were going to encounter with many great programs such as Stephane's Vivaldi, Jeff's Glenn Gould, Dai's Klook or Tessa/Scott's Mahler, and that we were going to see many wonderful/exciting/beautiful/artistic skaters like them who can demonstrate a true figure skating. But the reality is, I am just an amateur fan so I don't know it for sure but...each season we get to see such great programs/skaters, say, not more than 10, maybe?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hlj7bSqa98
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F893u_lTNVw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDNXgzKHT9I

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVfC9pD6sLM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttg2mmU8FcU
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vJFd...eature=related
    ->I much prefer this shirt for his Ararat, though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpdzA20mgy0

    Oh, I miss Stephane and Jeffs so much! IP, thanks a lot for reminding me of them. One of the reasons I love Steph, Jeff and Dai so much is every season they could make competitive programs, its choreographies, step sequences, etc. of their own's, and at every competition they entered or at every show appearance, they could always bring something special to the ice and bring the joy of skating to us, regardless of mistakes or not. (For that matter, I feel a bit disappointed with younger skaters and blame it to ISU , except a couple of the mentioned in my previou post.) The intensity, strain and excitement during 6-minute warm up by the final group at 2007 Tokyo Worlds was the 'best and worst' moment for me, probably, because I loved all of them; the very best six skaters that year: Brian, Jeff, Dai, Johnny, Evan and Stephane, so I got so nervous for each one of them and I just did not know who to root for the most!

    P.S. Buttle's style of skating was considered as ideal and most desired by ISU upon introduction of IJS/CoP, wasn't it?

  5. #200
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,495
    That must have been some experience, watching that worlds live! I'd have been similarly anxious for everyone. Who could choose between Stephane, Jeff, and Daisuke--and then to add Brian, Johnny, and Evan to the mix.

    That's an interesting point, that many of the greatest skating programs of recent times are also CoP gems. Certainly YuNa's programs qualify for that description. I wonder, though, whether some of these programs come from a time when CoP was calibrated slightly differently from the way it's set up now? Does anyone have any thoughts about that? I mean, at the beginning of CoP, Sasha held the points record for ladies for the first few years. She'd hardly score that high with such programs now. Have the criteria evolved?

  6. #201
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    234
    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    So, belittling the audience is the right reserved for Chan ubers.
    Your replies are getting so ridiculous I've come to think you're just trolling for the sake of it. It's getting so repetitive and same old-same old as the things you are criticizing. From now on I'll scroll over all your posts about mens competitions and read your posts on other topics. When you're talking about anything not related to Chan your posts are quite insightful and spot on.

  7. #202
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    18,661
    If a poster rubs you the wrong way you can do something about it. We have an ignore feature, then you don't have to bother with reading a post(er) that will upset you.

  8. #203
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    That must have been some experience, watching that worlds live! I'd have been similarly anxious for everyone. Who could choose between Stephane, Jeff, and Daisuke--and then to add Brian, Johnny, and Evan to the mix.

    That's an interesting point, that many of the greatest skating programs of recent times are also CoP gems. Certainly YuNa's programs qualify for that description. I wonder, though, whether some of these programs come from a time when CoP was calibrated slightly differently from the way it's set up now? Does anyone have any thoughts about that? I mean, at the beginning of CoP, Sasha held the points record for ladies for the first few years. She'd hardly score that high with such programs now. Have the criteria evolved?
    Absolutely. You can split COP into two eras, roughly, and that coincides with the Turin Olympics. COP really became a different beast after Turin. Harsher penalties on URs and edge calls, more backloading bonuses, fewer elements. PCS rules became stricter than more relaxed. When Buttle won without a quad, it really became clear that COP was about collecting points, and that a lot of points everywhere is more valuable than a significant amount of points in one place.

    But here's the thing: when I consider early COP programs, there aren't many that really take over discussion like the second era programs. If you could treat a season of figure skating like a best of album, I'm confident that there isn't a season that there would be less than 15 programs I'd rewatch without a second's hesitation.

  9. #204
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,768
    Okay, my impressions after I watched Mens free skates on TV:

    -I really liked Chan's, Kozuka's and Ten's programs as whole.
    A couple of mistakes from Taka and Denis, it means so much room to grow/perfect their programs, as well as more points and higher standings. Taka needs some more work to project the program and make the music come alive, though. David Wilson has proved himself once again that he is a genius choreographer!
    -As for Denis, I really like his progrmas last year and again this year. However, why does he have such difficult programs season after season? He was just inconsistent even with one quad last season. Why put 2 quads at this point? He needs to establish himself as a World/Olympic medal-worthys skater first with stable/consistent performances throughout the season. What's the hurry? He may end up injure himself I fear...

    -It's the new season. Knock-knock, where are your new programs, Artur and Michal???
    Especially Michal. He does not forever get 8's in PCS and judges love with such 'average' program, I think. His new SP, too. He will not make it onto the world podium on his own; will have to always rely onto other top skaters to make a couple of mistakes or perform badly. He has the technical goods. And pretty good musicality. Why does he put all his talent and ability to his competitive programs and try to stretch himself artistically??? His Kodo SP was the only one I really liked in his competitive programs so far.

    -So nice to see Nobu got back on the track and his smiles. Also, very glad to see he tries to skate BIG this season, finally, which is something missing in his skating I thought, ever since he moved up to seniors in 2005-06 season. Took long time but kudos to Nobu, Mr. Barkell and Lori!

    -Sad Menshov did not podium. Doubling the last jump into 2T really cost him... So relieved to see Autur's fully-rotated quads, and land at least one. Good job, Zhan Bush! Not bad at all scoring almost 200 in his very first senior grand prix.

    - to Johnny's withdrawal.

  10. #205
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,008
    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    So, belittling the audience is the right reserved for Chan ubers. While others can't even say any single word of critics of your guy's score without "shows plainly disrespect and arrogance to judges". The same old song that we were hearing from you guys for the whole last season- "the audience is dumb, we Chan fans and the judges are the ones with expertise!" Unfortunately for you the vast majority of fs community are quite knowledgeable. That's why no one ever took your guys' argument about stupid audience seriously . Probably that's why none of chan ubers took my advice and didn't let it go- the keep repeating how stupid everyone who disagree with their guy's score is. Pathetic.
    Are Chan fans some sort of second class citizens who should bear your constant and unreasonable attacks?! Obviously you have a remarkable ability to twist other poster's meanings, and utilize them to fit your purposes. Of course you can question about the judges' marks. When did I say you cannot?! What I've said "belittling", "disrespect", and "arrogance" was entirely about what you've said and particularly in one of your post #144. Please don't twist my meaning and make it like I was refering to a group of people which I was not! You do not represent anyone, neither the audiences, nor the group of Takahashi fans. I don't see anyone is as malicious as you are!

    I've realized that it is impossible to make logical and rational conversations with you. So as Toni has suggested above, from now on, I am putting you into my ignore list which is so far still empty.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 11-16-2012 at 03:41 PM. Reason: make it more clear on what I meant

  11. #206
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    2,188
    Quote Originally Posted by Puchi View Post
    Your replies are getting so ridiculous I've come to think you're just trolling for the sake of it.
    Case in point. If you'll read this thread, you'll see that in my post you replied on I used the wording of a Chan uber's post where he/she lectured me on what I should post. How wonderful to see that you call the said writing "ridiculous" and "trolling". Because that was exactly what his/her post was like imo. And, you see, when different people write the same things, even using the same words, their posts are treated differently, depends on either they're fans of the guy or not. So I made a point of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Are Chan fans some sort of second class citizens who should bear your constant and unreasonable attacks?!
    No, they are surely not. They are the only ones with objective truth to speak on the behalf of the knwoledgeable majority.
    Quote Originally Posted by deedee1 View Post
    Knock-knock, where are your new programs, Artur and Michal???
    I think Michal said in mid-season that he is going to keep his old FS. But Artur does have a new FS and skated it. It was quite a surprise that he showed up with his old FS at CoR . There were no explanations about that neither from him nor from his coach. Except the same stuff that Mishin told before- some personal secrets, I won't tell you, plus the body got weaker, etc. Actually all these mysteries are getting boring. I hope they will figure something out. Otherwise Plu will have to go to London. Because no one else will likely get 2 spots for Russia in Sochi.

  12. #207
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    111
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Are Chan fans some sort of second class citizens who should bear your constant and unreasonable attacks?! Obviously you have a remarkable ability to twist other poster's meanings, and utilize them to fit your purposes. Of course you can question about the judges' marks. When did I say you cannot?! What I've said "belittling", "disrespect", and "arrogance" were entirely about what you've said and particularly in one of your post #144. Please don't twist my meaning and make it like I was refering to a group of people which I was not! You do not represent anyone, neither the audiences, nor the group of Takahashi fans. I don't see anyone as malicious as you are!

    I've realized that it is impossible to make logical and rational conversations with you. So as Toni has suggested above, from now on, I am putting you into my ignore list which is so far still empty.
    It's pointless feeding the trolls, Bluebonnet - they just want attention and are probably either off their meds or posting from an institution ...

  13. #208
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,643
    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Case in point. If you'll read this a point of it.

    No, they are surely not. They are the only ones with objective truth to speak on the behalf of the knwoledgeable majority.
    I think Michal said in mid-season that he is going to keep his old FS. But Artur does have a new FS and skated it. It was quite a surprise that he showed up with his old FS at CoR . There were no explanations about that neither from him nor from his coach. Except the same stuff that Mishin told before- some personal secrets, I won't tell you, plus the body got weaker, etc. Actually all these mysteries are getting boring. I hope they will figure something out. Otherwise Plu will have to go to London. Because no one else will likely get 2 spots for Russia in Sochi.
    Piseev talked about the men's situation and doesn't seem like an emergency to him but it is an emergency. Plushenko keep saying no no no but the only security is one spot for host country in every event. There is a possibility of menshov or Kovtun. And if gachinski can make a stunning comeback. Voronov? One of those is the person! Very scary . Plus whoever it is has to travel to canada and make a worlds debut or return after failure the previous worlds. Emergency!

  14. #209
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,379
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Piseev talked about the men's situation and doesn't seem like an emergency to him but it is an emergency. Plushenko keep saying no no no but the only security is one spot for host country in every event. There is a possibility of menshov or Kovtun. And if gachinski can make a stunning comeback. Voronov? One of those is the person! Very scary . Plus whoever it is has to travel to canada and make a worlds debut or return after failure the previous worlds. Emergency!
    Menshov if he keeps landing his jumps, he can crack the Top 10 at Worlds imo, he is doing well this season and got a new PB of 226+ , a higher score of 230+ he can make top 10 by this season. Gachinski imo, has Absolutely ZERO Chance of going to Worlds, he can barely crack 200+ score, he wont probably even make the Euros team it could be Zhenya, Menshov and Voronov

  15. #210
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    2,188
    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Diva View Post
    are probably either off their meds or posting from an institution ...
    What a shame that this forum doesn't have a signature option. I would take this quote for mine as Chan ubers' motto about their opponents.
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Piseev talked about the men's situation and doesn't seem like an emergency to him but it is an emergency. Plushenko keep saying no no no but the only security is one spot for host country in every event. There is a possibility of menshov or Kovtun. And if gachinski can make a stunning comeback. Voronov? One of those is the person! Very scary . Plus whoever it is has to travel to canada and make a worlds debut or return after failure the previous worlds. Emergency!
    Gorshkov sounds more sober and realistic than Piseev. Today he said to media about the tough situation in Men's field of Team Russia. The reason of which is the 5th Olympic event- Team Trophy. He said it's quite obvious that it's better when two different skaters compete in Team's and Men's, for this Russia needs two skaters. Also, the participation in the Olympic Team event will be based directly on the results of Worlds-2013. So, again a strong skater from Russia in London is required: www.team-russia2014.ru/article/6164.html . Plush actually never said that he will not go to Worlds for sure. He always says something like "we'll see... it depends.. decide later...". No one really expected that such situation would come. And the poor skating of Artur this season is also not much of a hope. The team for worlds will be set after Euros, Gorshkov said. So it's quite possible that Plu will go. I personally think that the second spot should be get by those who lost it- either Gachi or Voronov, since they will be getting it for their possible Olympic medal in Team's. Why should Plu bother to do their job. On the other hand- I don't want him to skate in two Olympic events at his age. Well.

Page 14 of 15 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •