11-12-2012, 10:05 PM
Fair enough. I'd argue that figure skating artistry is only worthwhile if it comes through figure skating (aka, technical mastery).
Originally Posted by Buttercup
11-13-2012, 02:45 AM
I agree. I felt quite bored. PC's program, on the other hand, was quite glorious.
Originally Posted by noskates
11-13-2012, 04:34 AM
11-13-2012, 07:57 AM
My most favorite SP of Lambiel is Blood Diamond! No doubt.
Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue
LP is...Vivaldi for me, still...I know many believe Poeta is his masterpiece/best program in his whole career and I agree with them...'artistically'. Especially at 2007 Tokyo Worlds where, in spite of jump mistakes, I had goosebumps while watching it the whole time 4 mminutes d half! However, if I see it as a competitive program, I feel a bit incomplete becasuse of lack to ice coverage/over all speed/too many stops with dance at one place. (Sorry to say this and please don't get me wrong, becasuse I also knew his injuries over the years is part of its reason...)
With Vivaldi program in 2005-06 season, Stephane was literally 'flying' with joy over the ice, expressing every note of the music with his whole body while executing hardest jumps (2nd quad in the second half!), doing most difficult steps and spins at the same time!!! That was figure skating, the sport I fell in love, for me. Stephane exactly demonstrated 'figure skating' with this program, not mere hard jumps, not numbers of revolutions/change edges/positions required in spins, not all about skating skill, nor requirements to get level 4 step sq. A mixture of everything that was performed on the ice throughout 4 minutes+half!
As for Buttle, SP is probably Rachmaninov as a competitive program. Adios Noninos at 2007 Worlds comes to close second, though.
There are so many free programs of his that I really like, so I just can't pick up one...maybe Ararat at 2008 LA Worlds where he skated so perfectly (though I still prefer his white shirt with blue emboideries in the previous season).
I agree with you, IP, many of their programs are pure 'gems' in this CoP era. Around 2005-7 seasons, I did believe that we were going to encounter with many great programs such as Stephane's Vivaldi, Jeff's Glenn Gould, Dai's Klook or Tessa/Scott's Mahler, and that we were going to see many wonderful/exciting/beautiful/artistic skaters like them who can demonstrate a true figure skating. But the reality is, I am just an amateur fan so I don't know it for sure but...each season we get to see such great programs/skaters, say, not more than 10, maybe?
->I much prefer this shirt for his Ararat, though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpdzA20mgy0
Oh, I miss Stephane and Jeffs so much! IP, thanks a lot for reminding me of them. One of the reasons I love Steph, Jeff and Dai so much is every season they could make competitive programs, its choreographies, step sequences, etc. of their own's, and at every competition they entered or at every show appearance, they could always bring something special to the ice and bring the joy of skating to us, regardless of mistakes or not. (For that matter, I feel a bit disappointed with younger skaters and blame it to ISU , except a couple of the mentioned in my previou post.) The intensity, strain and excitement during 6-minute warm up by the final group at 2007 Tokyo Worlds was the 'best and worst' moment for me, probably, because I loved all of them; the very best six skaters that year: Brian, Jeff, Dai, Johnny, Evan and Stephane, so I got so nervous for each one of them and I just did not know who to root for the most!
P.S. Buttle's style of skating was considered as ideal and most desired by ISU upon introduction of IJS/CoP, wasn't it?
11-13-2012, 08:21 AM
That must have been some experience, watching that worlds live! I'd have been similarly anxious for everyone. Who could choose between Stephane, Jeff, and Daisuke--and then to add Brian, Johnny, and Evan to the mix.
That's an interesting point, that many of the greatest skating programs of recent times are also CoP gems. Certainly YuNa's programs qualify for that description. I wonder, though, whether some of these programs come from a time when CoP was calibrated slightly differently from the way it's set up now? Does anyone have any thoughts about that? I mean, at the beginning of CoP, Sasha held the points record for ladies for the first few years. She'd hardly score that high with such programs now. Have the criteria evolved?
11-13-2012, 01:53 PM
Your replies are getting so ridiculous I've come to think you're just trolling for the sake of it. It's getting so repetitive and same old-same old as the things you are criticizing. From now on I'll scroll over all your posts about mens competitions and read your posts on other topics. When you're talking about anything not related to Chan your posts are quite insightful and spot on.
Originally Posted by let`s talk
11-13-2012, 11:41 PM
If a poster rubs you the wrong way you can do something about it. We have an ignore feature, then you don't have to bother with reading a post(er) that will upset you.
11-14-2012, 12:17 AM
Absolutely. You can split COP into two eras, roughly, and that coincides with the Turin Olympics. COP really became a different beast after Turin. Harsher penalties on URs and edge calls, more backloading bonuses, fewer elements. PCS rules became stricter than more relaxed. When Buttle won without a quad, it really became clear that COP was about collecting points, and that a lot of points everywhere is more valuable than a significant amount of points in one place.
Originally Posted by Olympia
But here's the thing: when I consider early COP programs, there aren't many that really take over discussion like the second era programs. If you could treat a season of figure skating like a best of album, I'm confident that there isn't a season that there would be less than 15 programs I'd rewatch without a second's hesitation.
11-14-2012, 12:23 AM
Okay, my impressions after I watched Mens free skates on TV:
-I really liked Chan's, Kozuka's and Ten's programs as whole.
A couple of mistakes from Taka and Denis, it means so much room to grow/perfect their programs, as well as more points and higher standings. Taka needs some more work to project the program and make the music come alive, though. David Wilson has proved himself once again that he is a genius choreographer!
-As for Denis, I really like his progrmas last year and again this year. However, why does he have such difficult programs season after season? He was just inconsistent even with one quad last season. Why put 2 quads at this point? He needs to establish himself as a World/Olympic medal-worthys skater first with stable/consistent performances throughout the season. What's the hurry? He may end up injure himself I fear...
-It's the new season. Knock-knock, where are your new programs, Artur and Michal???
Especially Michal. He does not forever get 8's in PCS and judges love with such 'average' program, I think. His new SP, too. He will not make it onto the world podium on his own; will have to always rely onto other top skaters to make a couple of mistakes or perform badly. He has the technical goods. And pretty good musicality. Why does he put all his talent and ability to his competitive programs and try to stretch himself artistically??? His Kodo SP was the only one I really liked in his competitive programs so far.
-So nice to see Nobu got back on the track and his smiles. Also, very glad to see he tries to skate BIG this season, finally, which is something missing in his skating I thought, ever since he moved up to seniors in 2005-06 season. Took long time but kudos to Nobu, Mr. Barkell and Lori!
-Sad Menshov did not podium. Doubling the last jump into 2T really cost him... So relieved to see Autur's fully-rotated quads, and land at least one. Good job, Zhan Bush! Not bad at all scoring almost 200 in his very first senior grand prix.
- to Johnny's withdrawal.
11-14-2012, 12:49 AM
Last edited by Bluebonnet; 11-16-2012 at 04:41 PM.
Reason: make it more clear on what I meant
11-14-2012, 09:05 AM
Case in point. If you'll read this thread, you'll see that in my post you replied on I used the wording of a Chan uber's post where he/she lectured me on what I should post. How wonderful to see that you call the said writing "ridiculous" and "trolling". Because that was exactly what his/her post was like imo. And, you see, when different people write the same things, even using the same words, their posts are treated differently, depends on either they're fans of the guy or not. So I made a point of it.
Originally Posted by Puchi
No, they are surely not. They are the only ones with objective truth to speak on the behalf of the knwoledgeable majority.
Originally Posted by Bluebonnet
I think Michal said in mid-season that he is going to keep his old FS. But Artur does have a new FS and skated it. It was quite a surprise that he showed up with his old FS at CoR . There were no explanations about that neither from him nor from his coach. Except the same stuff that Mishin told before- some personal secrets, I won't tell you, plus the body got weaker, etc. Actually all these mysteries are getting boring. I hope they will figure something out. Otherwise Plu will have to go to London. Because no one else will likely get 2 spots for Russia in Sochi.
Originally Posted by deedee1
11-15-2012, 03:17 AM
It's pointless feeding the trolls, Bluebonnet - they just want attention and are probably either off their meds or posting from an institution ...
Originally Posted by Bluebonnet
11-15-2012, 03:48 AM
Piseev talked about the men's situation and doesn't seem like an emergency to him but it is an emergency. Plushenko keep saying no no no but the only security is one spot for host country in every event. There is a possibility of menshov or Kovtun. And if gachinski can make a stunning comeback. Voronov? One of those is the person! Very scary . Plus whoever it is has to travel to canada and make a worlds debut or return after failure the previous worlds. Emergency!
Originally Posted by let`s talk
11-15-2012, 04:07 AM
Menshov if he keeps landing his jumps, he can crack the Top 10 at Worlds imo, he is doing well this season and got a new PB of 226+ , a higher score of 230+ he can make top 10 by this season. Gachinski imo, has Absolutely ZERO Chance of going to Worlds, he can barely crack 200+ score, he wont probably even make the Euros team it could be Zhenya, Menshov and Voronov
Originally Posted by gmyers
11-15-2012, 11:56 AM
What a shame that this forum doesn't have a signature option. I would take this quote for mine as Chan ubers' motto about their opponents.
Originally Posted by Ice Diva
Gorshkov sounds more sober and realistic than Piseev. Today he said to media about the tough situation in Men's field of Team Russia. The reason of which is the 5th Olympic event- Team Trophy. He said it's quite obvious that it's better when two different skaters compete in Team's and Men's, for this Russia needs two skaters. Also, the participation in the Olympic Team event will be based directly on the results of Worlds-2013. So, again a strong skater from Russia in London is required: www.team-russia2014.ru/article/6164.html . Plush actually never said that he will not go to Worlds for sure. He always says something like "we'll see... it depends.. decide later...". No one really expected that such situation would come. And the poor skating of Artur this season is also not much of a hope. The team for worlds will be set after Euros, Gorshkov said. So it's quite possible that Plu will go. I personally think that the second spot should be get by those who lost it- either Gachi or Voronov, since they will be getting it for their possible Olympic medal in Team's. Why should Plu bother to do their job. On the other hand- I don't want him to skate in two Olympic events at his age. Well.
Originally Posted by gmyers