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Thread: 2012 Cup of Russia Men FS.

  1. #121
    Custom Title spikydurian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    You also conveniently forgot to count falls and hands down, step outs or edge calls, which you are very capable of counting when it is Patrick Chan who made those mistakes. None of the above can be reflected in the BV but there were plenty of those tonight. Chan's GOE is high in part because he made no deductible error whereas other skaters made several in their programs, including at least one fall from each of the top 5. Therefore, GOE in these cases are objective in that they properly reflected the deductible errors that have to be considered and a fall on jump usually produces around -3 for GOE, about 99% of the time.

    What you are doing is quoting the protocol out of the context, in your very deliberate attempt to continue your infamous "Chanflation" allegation. Unfortunately for you, the vast majority of members here are quite knowledgeable. People here know for example, when Kozuka UR both of his Quads, including a fall on one of them, he may have relatively high BV for those attempts but he would also rightfully receive lesser GOE, plus a mandatory deduction that is not being reflected in the BV. So yes, you could make an argument his overall program was more difficult but it remains a paper tiger if he can't land them properly. I could load a program with Quad Flip, Quad Lutz and other Quads and my BV would look superb - only if it were so easy.

    I don't know if you realize it but your continuous outrageous and verbal assaults on Patrick Chan has turned many otherwise ambivalent members who were previously indifferent re: Chan to sympathize with him. The fictional outrage really isn't working very well because people aren't stupid. Not a single soul here has contested the result but you can somehow dig the BV in an attempt to create a controversy when there is none to be found. Take my advice, just let it go, otherwise very soon, no one is going to take your posts seriously.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post

    I have to say that I don't understand some of Kozuka's interpretation for the music. He often leaves the music aside and does something irrelevant. Deedee, you are right to worry about Kozuka's PCS because I think he's going to continue to get hammered on PCS based on this kind of music, interpretation, and choreography.
    Wow, amazing how we can watch the same program and have completely different opinions! I love this program for Kozuka, and don't find anything wrong with his interpretation. If only he can land his quads cleanly!!

  3. #123
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    MEN'S FREE SKATE - VIDEOS & RESULT (Updated)

    1. Patrick CHAN (CAN) - 262.35 Free Skate
    2. Takahiko KOZUKA (JPN) - 229.99 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
    3. Michal BREZINA (CZE) - 224.56 Free Skate
    4. Konstantin MENSHOV (RUS) - 223.72
    5. Nobunari ODA (JPN) - 217.92 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
    6. Richard DORNBUSH (USA) - 210.89 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
    7. Artur GACHINSKI (RUS) - 209.84 Free Skate
    8. Zhan BUSH (RUS) - 199.37 Free Skate
    9. Denis TEN (KAZ) - 177.77 Free Skate
    Last edited by Mao88; 11-10-2012 at 07:01 PM.

  4. #124
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    I really dont believe Kozuka has so low pcs on the specific field of CoR. He has 14 points less than Chan... This is a huge marging I cannot comprehend at all. If judges appreciate great ss, choreo etc etc where are they looking when Kozu skates?
    Oda's pcs are 20 points less than the winner too, I dont know what to say.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by emdee View Post
    Be careful... someone here will say that you have breathing problems.
    They dont understand the meaning between breathtaking and breathless!

    But, you are correct the program was breathtaking!!!
    He will need to up the ante but I think that will come slowly to peak at worlds. GO PATRICK
    I second that. Truly passionate and heartfelt. LOL about your comment on differences between breathtaking and breathless -- some may believe "breathless" means no longer living!!

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    I really dont believe Kozuka has so low pcs on the specific field of CoR. He has 14 points less than Chan... This is a huge marging I cannot comprehend at all. If judges appreciate great ss, choreo etc etc where are they looking when Kozu skates?
    Perhaps Kozuka's 3 visible errors (not counting his underrotated 3Lz3T) that somewhat interrupted the flow of his performance had something to do with it. Although one may argue that two perfect 10.00s for Chan's skating skills were too generous, the final placement was correct: Chan gold, Kozuka silver, both going to the GPF.

    By the way, I got the impression that this season the judges seemed to penalize falls more severely, perhaps as a result of fans' constant outcry. Coincidentally, Chan seemed to have changed his strategy as well. He used to risk a fall in fully rotating a jump. Now he simply doubled it instead. Perhaps Chan, like the judges, has responded to the public complaints. And I like it. He didn't fall = receive high scores = well-deserved
    Last edited by skatinginbc; 11-10-2012 at 09:10 PM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    Perhaps Kozuka's 3 visible errors (not counting his underrotated 3Lz3T) that somewhat interrupted the flow of his performance had something to do with it. Although one may argue that two perfect 10.00s for Chan's skating skills were too generous, the final placement was correct: Chan gold, Kozuka silver, both going to the GPF.

    By the way, I got the impression that this season the judges seemed to penalize falls more severely, perhaps as a result of fans' constant outcry. Coincidentally, Chan seemed to have changed his strategy as well. He used to risk a fall in fully rotating a jump. Now he simply doubled it instead. Perhaps Chan, like the judges, has responded to the public complaints. And I like it. He didn't fall = receive high scores = well-deserved
    Nobody's disputing the final placement; I just think that Kozuka is always getting lower PCS than he deserves.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    What you are doing is quoting the protocol out of the context, in your very deliberate attempt to continue your infamous "Chanflation" allegation. Unfortunately for you, the vast majority of members here are quite knowledgeable. People here know for example, when Kozuka UR both of his Quads, including a fall on one of them, he may have relatively high BV for those attempts but he would also rightfully receive lesser GOE, plus a mandatory deduction that is not being reflected in the BV. So yes, you could make an argument his overall program was more difficult but it remains a paper tiger if he can't land them properly. I could load a program with Quad Flip, Quad Lutz and other Quads and my BV would look superb - only if it were so easy.

    I don't know if you realize it but your continuous outrageous and verbal assaults on Patrick Chan has turned many otherwise ambivalent members who were previously indifferent re: Chan to sympathize with him. The fictional outrage really isn't working very well because people aren't stupid. Not a single soul here has contested the result but you can somehow dig the BV in an attempt to create a controversy when there is none to be found. Take my advice, just let it go, otherwise very soon, no one is going to take your posts seriously.
    Well said, wallylutz! ITA.
    Patrick was absolutely stunning. Well deserved PCS, especially the SS mark!

    I've seen Patrick, Kozuka, and Oda live before, but Patrick was another level. After watching him skate, I could understand why he always gets huge PCS and GOE on his jumps. Speed, transitions, qualities of his jumps and spins, skating skills, choreography... Everything was perfect.
    I was wowed by Kozuka's skating, too. I always thought he was boring on TV, but seeing him live was different. He has great SS and speed! Not compared to Patrick, but he was awesome! He's undermarked on PCS, IMO. Maybe because of interpretation, performance, and choreography?

  9. #129
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    By the way, I got the impression that this season the judges seemed to penalize falls more severely, perhaps as a result of fans' constant outcry. Coincidentally, Chan seemed to have changed his strategy as well. He used to risk a fall in fully rotating a jump. Now he simply doubled it instead. Perhaps Chan, like the judges, has responded to the public complaints. And I like it. He didn't fall = receive high scores = well-deserved
    Yeah. Kind of a "be careful what you ask for, you might get it" situation.

  10. #130
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    I agree Kozuka should receive much higher PCS. However, I feel that people do not need to question Chan's scores in order to do this. Anyone watching Chan today cannot dispute his PCS scores. He is a cut above the rest. Truly amazing!
    Quote Originally Posted by chloepoco View Post
    Nobody's disputing the final placement; I just think that Kozuka is always getting lower PCS than he deserves.

  11. #131
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    I do think P Chan deserves 10 in SS. His skating is amazing and over the top. But I do not get how he gets much higher scores in other PCS elements like P/E, Choreo and Interpretation. He skated flawlessly except a couple of jumping mistakes, which translate into higher scores? But then, Hanyu got 79 in PCS at Skate America when he had three falls and run out of gas obviously toward the end of program. In terms of flawlessness, Oda and Kozuka were much better, but Oda got only 73 and Kozuka got 79 this time.

    You get higher scores in other elements too if you have superb SS? Is Hanyu’s skating better than Oda and Kozuka?
    I do not think so.

    I like P Chan’s new program and he deserves a win this time. I just do not get PCS is inflated for some skaters and deflated for some, and there is no clear explanation for it.

  12. #132
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    Skating skills remain relatively constant regardless the number of errors made in technical elements. So Kuzuka's 8.32 in CoR compared to his 8.43 in SA seems about right to me. Performance/Execution can fluctuate greatly depends on the mistakes one makes in a performance. So Kuzuka's 7.79 in CoR (more errors) compared to his 8.57 in SA (relatively clean) seems to be justifiable as well. CH concerns the executed choreography, not the planned choreography. So I can see it goes down as more errors occur. What puzzles me dearly is actually his short program PCS at SA. I thought he should have gotten higher scores. I don't think Kuzuka's scores were deflated in CoR. I, however, think Chan's scores were inflated (Don't kill me if I say so). Even so, he should have won anyway. So no complaint from me.
    Last edited by skatinginbc; 11-10-2012 at 10:00 PM.

  13. #133
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Oda was seriously low-balled on the PCS. Just goes to show how much competition momentum, reputation, and politics plays into the judging. That was a good performance with nice choreography and musicality, and plenty of transitions and speed. He also got a < call and -GOE on his 3S for no reason at all. He really should have been on the podium here.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Oda was seriously low-balled on the PCS. Just goes to show how much competition momentum, reputation, and politics plays into the judging. That was a good performance with nice choreography and musicality, and plenty of transitions and speed. He also got a < call and -GOE on his 3S for no reason at all. He really should have been on the podium here.
    I don't know if he should have been on the podium or not. He made such costly mistakes in SP.
    I liked Oda very much in the long, however. Nearly flawless except the first fall. What surprised me most this time was wow he skates big. He doesn't look like a small man. Not that big like Chan but still. And those beautiful 3As!! Deserves higher PCS, I think his and Kozuka's should have been closer.
    Oda's win at J. Nats this year may be a tall order but not really impossile if he can do clean SP and LP. I will root for him.

    Kozuka has been my favorite Japanese for years but this year, it seems that his jump layout is too ambitious. If you are not so confident with 4T, only one clean 4T in LP will not hurt much. Go Kozuka!

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Oda was seriously low-balled on the PCS.
    Because of your post, I watched Oda's performance and I think you might be right. I would have given him Skating Skills 8.25 + Transition / Linking Footwork 7.75 + Performance/Execution 8.00 + Choreography/Composition 8.00 + Interpretation 8.25 = 40.25 *2 = 80.50 PCS.
    81.76 (TES) + 80.50 (PCS) = 162.26 (FP). Total Score = 63.18 (SP) + 162.26 (FP) = 225.44 > Michal BREZINA's 224.56
    Oda could have won the bronze.
    Last edited by skatinginbc; 11-10-2012 at 11:23 PM.

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